Ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb

[rsbrickshop]

I'm a private seller. Items I sell are between £2.90 - £10. Is It just me or will ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb make it near impossible to sell competitively. A few months ago Ebay got rid of Sellers' fees for private sellers, which was a welcome move. But this new change and getting rid of multi-buy discount for private sellers will make it worse than it was with the original fees.

[gblcfc]

Look at the monthly shop fees and monthly listing limits - it's not a difficult calculation 

[jonat_broad]

OK. I'm happy to be shown how I'm not seeing the calculation. Or are you including FVFs as well?

[gblcfc]

The table makes it clear that (for me)  it would cost over £1000 to list my stuff

FV fees on sales would be an additional cost

[jonat_broad]

Fair enough - are you basing it on a Basic Shop?

[vintique*violet]

Just to clarify under a business account with no shop the fees are 30p per listing plus FVF on sales?

Are there any other costs?

[the_book_seekers]

You need to add VAT to the fee for listing so will be 36p.

For private sellers VAT is included in any fee charged for business sellers VAT has to be added.

[vintique*violet]

Ahh yes...Thank you...  So basically roughly 66p for listing an item plus FVF?

[the_book_seekers]

I think the 30p fixed fee may also be subject to VAT for business sellers and is charged when an item sells.

So 36p including VAT to list and 30p + FVFs + VAT for a sale. 

[jonat_broad]

That’s correct but you would logically move to a shop of some kind as it’s more cost effective to have a shop on e you get to about 90 listings.

for the seller above who says it will cost over £1000, I simply can’t see how. Currently they’ve got 11,000 listings and a handful of those are auctions

i can’t see how an anchor shop at £437 with unlimited fixed price listings wouldn’t be the option they would choose. Unless they wanted to list a significantly higher percentage of auctions.

this is the odd thing with shops. A £77 shop gives you 1,500 free listings, but it doesn’t become cost effective to move to an anchor shop until you list 8,700 listings. There really does need to be another tier to be honest.

[papso22]

The confusion seems to be between monthly price and monthly subscription value, on that table.

The value figure is not a charge but it is being taken as one by some posters.

[gblcfc]

I don't think that you have fully understood the charging model

[jonat_broad]

Any particular reason you don't want to explain what isn't being understood?

Or is it what I think the reason is?

[gblcfc]

Well as you have not stated what you think the reason is I can hardly comment can I? 

It is clear from your comment about 'tiers' and that of papso22 that neither have you have worked the numbers through. 

[jonat_broad]

Well as you have not stated what you think the reason is I can hardly comment can I? 

annoying isn’t it

[theelench]

I'm sorry that you don't like the way I 'waffle' in my replies, but I think that what you really don't like about them is that I keep on pointing out that it isn't private sellers you are "fighting for equality (with) when I am paying business fees when un-registered businesses are selling on private accounts" and I remind you and others that it is wrong to confuse the two by not making the distinction clear.

@ett1954 

I have no doubt that @papso22  is correct when they say that businesses buying from private sellers on  private accounts are "mis-representing themselves ...and is illegal".  

In both cases it is business sellers mis-representing themselves to gain an advantage over other business sellers who play by the rules.

So why is there no anger against them and no fighting for a level playing field when it comes to duping private sellers?  Don't private sellers also have the right to expect a level playing field and to be dealt with within ebay's rules and the laws that say a business should properly identify itself whether selling or buying?  Or is the practice so widespread that businesses would rather turn a blind eye and keep quiet when that aspect of trading is mentioned?

[jasonsdad]

Has anyone noted a significant drop in sales yet ?   The new rules/changes seem to have got rid of a lot of private sellers/buyers.   This will effect EBay's bottom line and work itself into a falling stock price.  I just wonder if there will be a reversal of policy or do EBay believe they will be better off without all the tittle tattle, small fry ?

[andha-21]

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@jasonsdad wrote:

Has anyone noted a significant drop in sales yet ?   The new rules/changes seem to have got rid of a lot of private sellers/buyers.   This will effect EBay's bottom line and work itself into a falling stock price.  I just wonder if there will be a reversal of policy or do EBay believe they will be better off without all the tittle tattle, small fry ?

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I stopped listing so n/a in my case.

Between saved sellers and saved keyword searches I cover thousands of new active listings in my hobby arena and the main thing I'm seeing in Warhammer models is that new listings are now dominated by USA and Germany on most days of the week. Saturday/Sunday seeming to be the exception. It was never like that before.

Alot of my saved private sellers look like they've stopped listing. Similar to me.

As for hitting their bottom line. From what I'm seeing it's inevitable. My area has taken a major hit in sales prices and it was an incredibly stable market. Depending on seller/item the market seems to have crashed by 20-50%.

OOP Forgeworld models that usually only rise in price are taking massive hits. Ones that I watch specifically like Rogue Idol and the Colossal Squig are down around 40% in what they would have fetched 2 months ago.

So the market is being driven down here. Elsewhere it still seems stable. So once the sellers realise that they will jump ship. & as stupid as it sounds, there is an insane amount of money changing hands with Warhammer stuff. On a day to day basis.

I seriously doubt eBay could afford to lose something that big and unless they act soon it's almost certain they will.

[sammylou40]

I’m selling off my discontinued collection of charms that are currently highly collectible. 
Towards the end of last year I was bombarded by eBay asking me to promote my listings, for a fee, and I chose not to.  as a result sales significantly dropped.  I had listed some the Christmas before and they flew out. 
now with the buyer fees, sales are none existent. 
I can lower the price to cover fees but I’m still being asked to promote so is it going to make a difference? 
they have a value so I really don’t want to give them away but they’re sat in a drawer otherwise 

vin ted is the other option but there people really do want things for peanuts and that’s why the BPF works. The prices of items is so low it’s irrelevant 

[jonat_broad]

I don't think any above board business seller would dispute that a business seller using a private account to buy from a private seller isn't fair. It is gaining an advantage. And yes there should be a level playing field. Absolutely there should.

I'll be honest - it wasn't something I was aware was happening. And I think that is likely the issue - visibility. A private seller that looks like they might be a business is a visible thing. Now, its clearly debatable into the early hours if someone should be a business in some cases, but you can see its 'potenitally' likely.

How would you, without seeing it happening on your own account be able to tell if a business is using a private account to buy from a private seller? it's surely more obscured isn't it? A private seller would only see another private seller and would have to investigate to see if they have or are a business. And, like anything else, I am always happy to learn if I've got the wrong end of the stick here.

[papso22]

"In both cases it is business sellers mis-representing themselves to gain an advantage over other business sellers who play by the rules".

It is difficult to see how they get an advantage on ebay though, despite ebay saying it is not allowed.

If a business seller uses a private account to buy from a genuine private seller, you are right that is really a C2B transaction and the Consumer regs don't apply, but because ebay makes no distinction between business and private buyers using the MBG, the private seller has the same risk of a claim as they would if the buyer had used a business account to buy with.  

The same goes for if a business seller uses a private account to buy from a business account, while the Consumer Regs again don't apply, there is no exclusion from the MBG for business account purchases, so the business seller is equally subject to a claim through the MBG.

The disadvantage lies in either a business or private account buying from a private account holder that should be a business account, where bith get charged BPF fess that they shouldn't be charged.

So I don't see how, on ebay, the business seller buying on a private account gets any advantage over a business seller buying on a business account, but I am happy to have it explained to me.