how is this free listings going to work for buyers?

[reasonable-robert]

hi

so we have free listings and no commission for us private sellers...for now,

its a carrot and stick job

but how is this really going to work as it must be costing e bay a fortune in lost commissions.

will they just take the fees from business sellers and i can understand why B.S are up in arms and thinking of leaving or going private which would in turn distort the market.

or will they use vinteds model where the buyer pays a premium on top of the purchase price which would mean the actual PP + postage + a premium which in turn could frighten away buyers.

e bays constant tinkering has created more problems than it solved basicly a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

leave free listings in by all means but the 10% fvf plus 30p a transaction worked well enough for years  

[sml192]

Ebay are planning to introduce a Buyer Protection Fee in the new year plus they will be earning interest from sellers who choose to leave their funds in the new 'eBay Balance' instead of withdrawing them to their bank accounts.

In addition there are still fees for listing upgrades, international sales, promoted listings, shop subscriptions, etc. 

As for business seller fees, there may well be some changes going forward now that Vinted Pro has launched as they don't charge sellers any fees.  Business sellers have already been offered zero final value fees on used clothing until the end of the year. 

[1956glyn]

Just to add the theory is........private sellers will spend more on the site

Plus a load of new private sellers will join up and also spend on the site

Both of the above are supposed to help struggling business sellers.

[reasonable-robert]

ah so they are going to nick vinteds model then

lets see what this does to sales

[hudsonsclothes]

I'm curious to see how business people are doing since this. I've kept quiet in the forums amongst all the negativity for fear of being hated 🤣 but since the 1st of October all my traffic and sale stats are flying and the free listings for business pre-owned clothing sellers has only helped further. Two months in and it's growing all the time. I'm curious if anyone else is actually doing okay, can't just all be *bleep* like the forum would have you believe

[thesmokingrunner]

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@reasonable-robert wrote:

ah so they are going to nick vinteds model then

lets see what this does to sales

---

Probably not very much. Whilst newcomers to eBay may well accept a Vinted-style "buyer's fee" there are many current and long-standing eBayers who have been on this site for years (I've had this account for 16 years, and another one prior to that for 9 years) who will not. I'm one of them.

To be honest I fail to see how the removal of seller fees for private accounts will lead to increased sales for fee-generating business sellers. The introduction of a Buyer's Protection Fee will, quite possibly, lead to sellers having to reduce their prices (and therefore their profit) by the same percentage in order to maintain parity with private sellers. If they don't there will be fewer sales from fee-generating businesses, which will not benefit eBay's bottom line at all.

Following the recent removal of fees for private sellers I did wonder if those sellers would reduce prices by a similar percentage to reflect the fact they would no longer be paying over 13% of the sale price in commission, though I have yet to see any prices being reduced. Funny that. I guess private sellers are just counting any increase they will receive as a bonus.

It will be interesting to see what happens when a Buyer's Protection Fee is introduced.

[wyntersemporium]

Just some. I don't sell used clothes though, so I do not get free final value fees.

although most probably won't be here for long 

[wyntersemporium]

I don't sell preloved clothes so I'm losing cash 

[reasonable-robert]

no actually i disagree there 

i,ve been a e bayer since it first started under piers as a second hand tat site over the years i,ve left and returned and its not just BS who will have to drop their prices when BP is introduced so will private sellers to cover the BP fee.

[ett1954]

"its not just BS who will have to drop their prices when BP is introduced" - There comes a point when it is not possible to drop your prices when margins are as tight as they are now.  This results in you either becoming a busy fool or giving your product away.  It is far more beneficial to focus on other avenues for your business.  Once correctly registered business sellers leave the site in numbers, either voluntarily or involuntarily, then it will be down to the private seller and/or the buyer to fund the continuation of the platform.

[pillarboxred]

The research has shown that Sell for Free attracts more users to the site who then go on to buy on the site with much of the new buying being from business sellers (did I see 80% of the new spend going to business sellers?) . It seems to have been a dramatic success in the important German market. So, in a roundabout way, it grows the eBay market. When I joined eBay, Amazon was for books and there was no Etsy nor Vinted nor Facebook Marketplace nor Instagrab and all the other trading platforms around the world so eBay has made this dramatic move to grab a bigger market share. Pray it works.

[ett1954]

Firstly, you cannot compare the UK market to the German market.  Business registration is strictly regulated and enforced in Germany.  There is not the vast pool of unregistered business sellers operating under the radar, and certainly not openly like there is in the UK.  Those private German sellers were much more likely to purchase from a business seller, simply by the laws of statistics.

Second, have you seen eBay publish the independent data to support the above statement.  It is similar to the statement made by the CEO at the 2nd Quarter financial report to investors who stated that eBay were developing more ways for sellers to promote their items because that's what sellers were requesting.  Were you asked, I wasn't; and when I asked whether there was data to support that I was told eBay don't release such information.  ......... Other companies do!  Remember eBay's only financial driver for the last couple of years, other than fees collected from higher postage costs, has been from increased revenue obtained from promotional fees which is pushed at investors at every opportunity.

Do you really believe everything you are told by eBay?

[pg_kicks]

As mentioned by @ett1954 if this was the case surely eBay would be racing to release the figures showing that allowing private sellers to sell preloved clothing was such a success. Instead they told employee's that all they could say was it beat estimated/planned figures, they wouldnt even say what these figures were. There will be many businesses who make great decisions and then ban employees from talking about the figures but most of those will be where they have genuine competition, not like eBay who have a customer base who are being asked to pay for the exact same product/services as others are getting for free. Trust in eBay is at an all time low, the site has way too many bugs which they clearly dont have the knowledge or care to fix and they hope people will just pay more to get higher on the search results. 

I still don't buy the line of more people selling results more people buying, if you were not selling on eBay due to 10/15% fee's on your unwanted items (many got 70% off) then once you find out the issues with the site will you really stick around if you're just selling old clothing or a lamp you dont want any longer? I can see a short term spike then a slow decline back to pretty much where it was previously by private sellers but with less business sellers.

[rjwilmsi]

If eBay are trying to emulate Vinted, then the model will switch from seller paying fees to buyer paying fees.

I do not believe that in the medium or long term eBay will be giving up all of the final value fee for all private sales.

I don't know the proportions but I expect most ebay fees revenue is from business sellers, so eBay may think that a boost to users from the free private selling offer, plus later adding a buyer fee (not necessarily at same level as current private seller fees) will see them come out ahead. eBay will only be doing what they think will give them the highest revenue in the long term.

[pg_kicks]

Does anyone else get the It's for free to sell box on their seller hub but the link doesnt take you anywhere, any private accounts who get this does the link work differently for you?

[johnwash1]

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@pg_kicks wrote:

Does anyone else get the It's for free to sell box on their seller hub but the link doesnt take you anywhere, any private accounts who get this does the link work differently for you?

---

If I click on it it takes me to my Manage Active Listings page.  So a useless link.

However there are many many other things on the site I'd like to see fixed before that.  I used to make the effort to report issues, but never got the satisfaction of seeing them fixed, so I long ago gave up.

[pg_kicks]

100% theres other things I'd fix before it too, it was more to see if it actually took you anywhere if you were a private account thats all, thanks.

[pillarboxred]

You know more about eBay Germany than I do, however, EBay's analysis was of the behaviour of their registered private sellers when fees for selling were removed:  more new private sellers were attracted to the marketplace. If German online selling is more regulated, I doubt all the new private sellers were existing business sellers opening fake accounts. The new private sellers also bought on eBay, 80% of their purchases being from business sellers.

Britain's famous fiscal black hole which the chancellor of the exchequer is trying to fill might make the government stricter in regulating the online marketplaces. Such regulation must apply to all online marketplaces.

[johnwash1]

Yes, stricter regulation, that's what we need to stimulate the economy.

/s in case it's not obvious to some

[ett1954]

@pillarboxred   "If German online selling is more regulated, I doubt all the new private sellers were existing business sellers opening fake accounts. The new private sellers also bought on eBay, 80% of their purchases being from business sellers." - I totally agree with this and no doubt this has been a very good marketing initiative in Germany.

The point I am trying to make is, if I can try and put it more clearly, that due to regulations, enforcement and culture in Germany, this results in a much higher ratio of business sellers there being correctly registered.  For argument's sake let's say 5% of private sellers in Germany are actually business sellers whilst 50% in the UK are business sellers masquerading as private sellers who now pay little or no fees to eBay.  I am sure the figures are lower in both cases but it is the ratio here that is important.

The influx of new private sellers in Germany receive payments which they spend on eBay.  If they are looking to buy new widgets then new widgets would most likely be on sale through business sellers.  They buy these and business sellers (of which the vast majority in Germany are correctly registered) receive an income but also pay fees to eBay.  An excellent result for eBay Germany and the business sellers which I am not disputing.

In the UK the influx of new, mostly private sellers do the same and spend their money on new widgets.  The difference being that a much higher ratio of the businesses are trading as private sellers and because they can trade at a much lower selling price than a legitimate business they will take a higher proportion of the sales - paying no fees to eBay.  Their money is income and much less likely to be spent on eBay - less sales for legitimate sellers and no money for eBay from a much higher proportion of the total sales.  Not good for registered business sellers or eBay.

With regards to regulation, new regulations in the UK are not needed - they are already there in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 under which certain obligations for online selling are required in law by business sellers, primarily contact details and a compliant returns policy.  On eBay the former can only be done by registering as a business.  Unfortunately this legal requirement is not effectively enforced either by Trading Standards or eBay.

The current situation on eBay UK is not sustainable in my opinion, as it will be compounded over the coming months as 'private' business sellers receive ever-increasing fee-free listings at the rate of an additional 300 every month.  eBay will either have to effectively deal with illegal trading or re-introduce fees by some means for all private sellers, the sooner the better.  Fees for buyers is an ill-thought desperate measure that will not work as has been shown by those platforms in the US who have already experimented with this.