Item not collected from Argos collection point in time - case opened

[9150simon]

I sold an item 3 months ago and it was delivered to an Argos click and collect point.  It was sent by 48 hour tracked and recorded as delivered.  I then received a message over a week later saying that the buyer hadn't collected the parcel in time and it had been sent back to me, I did say at the time that I didn't think things were returned, but if it did I would contact her.

Sure enough it didn't come back and now 3 months later I have a case opened for item not received.  The item has disappeared off my selling list, but managed to find it via the order no. on the opened case and the tracking showed delivery, but nothing after that so has disappeared into some black hole somewhere.

The thing is I am not 100% sure where I stand, I have until tomorrow to respond to the case and although the buyer has been very reasonable about it all, she still expects a refund and I have done nothing wrong.

I am fairly sure I am covered by the tracking, but how does it work from now, do I let the case time out and assume that ebay will close the case in my favour?  I am just not sure what to do.

[cobwebcottage]

You used to be able to re enter the tracking number on a case and it would close in your favour. Still  respond to the case and add the tracking number in the info box and if you bought the label on Ebay, mention that too as it will automatically have the eCP code.

Let your buyer know thta you will contact them if an dwhen it is returned and you can resend it although they will need to pay for the postage again.

[9150simon]

Hi I have checked and the tracking box is whited out with the original tracking number showing, and it says that you can't alter / enter the tracking after a parcel has been delivered.  It gives the option to enter a new tracking number but I don't want to do that as it may confuse the issue. 

Yes the label was bought through ebay with all relevant details on, the only option I have at the moment in responding to the case is to send messages to the buyer (not to ebay) and I have given her all the details - I did tell her that I would contact her if it was returned to me when I messaged her 3 months ago, but at the moment the case is still open and needs to be resolved by the 7th Nov.

[cobwebcottage]

You have done all you can. The case will close tomorrow in your favour. 

[*vyolla*]

If the original tracking number is showing that the order has been delivered then all is good.

You might want to contact eBay and just point out that the tracking number shows that the item was delivered to the delivery address given in the order details on (date).

I’ve found that the easiest route to contact eBay Customer Services is via the link below, you can request a call back:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

[9150simon]

Thank you, I am pretty wary of contacting ebay regarding open cases, as they tend to just have a knee jerk reaction.  The only other time I contacted them about an item not received case a few years ago, within minutes they just closed it in the buyers favour (and I was in the right) - I was well p**** off.  Maybe things have changed now.

[9150simon]

Fingers crossed.

[sml192]

What kind of case has the buyer opened?

You say its been over 3 months since the item was purchased so if it is an eBay Money Back Guarantee case then, as it has been more than 30 days since the expected date of delivery, the buyer will not be able to escalate to eBay and it will just time out.

If the buyer has opened a 'Payment dispute' with their payment provider then you just need to provide tracking proving delivery to the collection point in order for eBay to protect you.  The buyer may still be refunded but out of eBay's funds rather than yours. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@sml192 wrote:

You say its been over 3 months since the item was purchased so if it is an eBay Money Back Guarantee case then, as it has been more than 30 days since the expected date of delivery, the buyer will not be able to escalate to eBay and it will just time out.

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As far as I am aware eBay "requests" that are opened after the Money Back Guarantee period has expired aren't MBG cases but requests that sellers can close without being required to offer any resolution to. If this is the case there will be a "Close this request" (or similar) button in the request. This all became confusing when eBay started calling MBG cases "requests".

[crofty2267]

It's an item not received case with ebays request to resolve by the 7th Nov.  The item was delivered to the Argos point early August, so just about 3 months, I was surprised that they could open a case so long after.

[crofty2267]

Hi there isn't a button to close the request, this may appear tomorrow.  This is what I wasn't sure about as I have never just left a case to time out, I have always resolved them in time, but as I haven't done anything wrong in this instance, I posted it on time and it was delivered - just not collected on time,  I don't want to just refund, but there is always the chance they will open a chargeback case.  Is it right that ebay protect against these chargebacks if all is in order?

[sml192]

They can still open an 'Item not received' request (up to 90 days from expected date of delivery, I believe) but if it's more than 30 days from expected date of delivery then they won't be able to escalate to eBay, at which point it would become an actual 'case'.  I don't why they still provide a date to respond to as that just confuses things.

If the buyer does try a chargeback then eBay should definitely protect you.  Details here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293&st=...

[4_bathrooms]

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@sml192 wrote:

They can still open an 'Item not received' request (up to 90 days from expected date of delivery, I believe) but if it's more than 30 days from expected date of delivery then they won't be able to escalate to eBay, at which point it would become an actual 'case'.  I don't why they still provide a date to respond to as that just confuses things.

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Did eBay change these when they started calling all MBG cases "requests"? Before that change if a seller received a "request" it meant the buyer had opened a return outside the MBG window and the seller could simply close the request if they wanted to. You're right - it makes no sense providing a deadline for resolution if there's nothing the buyer can do to escalate the "request" due to being outside the MBG window.

[sml192]

@sml192 wrote:

If the buyer does try a chargeback then eBay should definitely protect you. 

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Apologies, having said that you should definitely be protected in the event of a chargeback, and having now read the section on Click & Collect items in the 'Payment dispute seller protections' policy that I linked to together with the corresponding section in 'Handling payment disputes', I'm not sure that advice is actually correct, as it seems that proof of actual collection is required and not just proof of delivery to the collection point, which is fair enough in terms of challenging the chargeback but seems unfair in terms of gaining eBay seller protection.  I don't understand though how the seller would be able to provide all the information that they list, in particular 'Buyer's signature confirming collection' and 'Buyer's photo ID'?  The reference to 'the retailer' as opposed to 'the collection point' is also a little confusing, although obviously a Click & Collect collection point is a retailer. 

Evidence of successful collection
For Click & Collect items collected from the retailer, the seller must provide evidence that includes all of the following:

• Order ID number
• Item number
• Item title
• Amount paid
• Date of collection
• Buyer's signature confirming collection
• Buyer's photo ID that was presented at the time of collection (if available)
• Address of pickup store or location

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799

Providing evidence for the payment dispute

Because different types of evidence can be more helpful in certain cases, we recommend providing different types of evidence depending on the type of payment dispute. We'll send all evidence to the buyer's payment institution.

Buyer doesn’t recognise the transaction or Buyer didn't receive the item

Type of item	Recommended evidence
A physical item that's been posted, except for vehicles	Tracking information showing the order was delivered successfully to the postal address that matches the address on the order details page Signature confirmation when an order total is greater than or equal to £450
A physical item collected from retailer, except for vehicles	Valid buyer identification for collection from the retailer and proof of pickup which includes:   Date of pickup Store of delivery (applicable for collection from retailer), matching the postal address on the order Order ID, item number, item title, and price paid The customer's signature on the pickup form or packing slip

[davrman]

> Buyer's signature confirming collection
> Buyer's photo ID that was presented at the time of collection (if available)

I have used eBay Click & Collect in the past and have NEVER been asked for a signature or ID...

[dch2112011]

An item not collected within 7 days from the click and collect point is automatically treated as a customer cancellation - you need to refund when you receive it -  having said this if it is not returned ebay should close the request and refund themselves if escalated

click-and-collect/terms 

Returns

• If the buyer fails to collect the goods within 7 working days of being notified that it is ready for collection, the contract between you and the buyer shall be treated as cancelled by the buyer.
• Provided the item has been delivered with a valid, legible eCP code and does exceed the eligibility requirements set out above eBay will ship and cover the cost of the return.
• If the item was delivered to an Argos or Sainsbury's eBay collection point, it will be returned to you by Royal Mail's tracked 48 hour service.
• If the item was delivered to a CollectPlus eBay collection point, it will be returned to you by Yodel's tracked standard returns service.
• Once you have received a returned item, you shall refund the buyer within 2 business days in line with our return policy. The refund has to include original shipping cost (except surcharges for express delivery services that were ordered by the buyer). If eBay manages your payments, you shall initiate the refund as part of the returns process on eBay.co.uk.
• The buyer will not be able to return items to an eBay collection point and will be directed to use the standard returns process on eBay.co.uk.
• Your normal returns policy will apply to items that are eligible for Click & Collect.

[sml192]

Yes, that's what I thought although I haven't used Click & Collect myself.  Even if those things were required the seller wouldn't have that information so doesn't make any sense. 

[signs_and_vintage]

Classic eBay grift, offer 'protection' with strings attatched that no-one can meet. Wasn't there some thing years ago where they only provided protection against non-delivery claims over a certain value where the courier checked and recorded ID too, and no such service existed in the UK.

[the-nutwood-collection]

I agree with @davrman 

I've collected lots of C&C parcels from Argos, and all I do is show them the notification on the phone, and they give me the parcel.  I've never signed, and I've never been asked for photo ID - which is a good thing, because sometimes I'm collecting my partner's parcel and he's just forwarded the notification to me. 

The name on the parcel would be generally recognised as a male name, and I am a female, but they just hand over the parcel, no questions asked.

[rjwilmsi]

You should win the Item Not Received case because you have tracking to prove delivery. As tracking is already added you shouldn't need to do anything.

However, if the buyer hasn't been refunded then they will expect and need to be refunded. I suspect that eBay and the collection shop have failed to communicate with each other so no refund has happened.

Under the Click & Collect rules it's not seller's fault if buyer doesn't collect item. If you accept returns then eBay should either return the item to you, or write it off and refund the buyer themselves (if lower value). If you don't accept returns then eBay should write it off and refund the buyer themselves. If you never got the item back then the refund should not be from you.

I would advise the buyer to contact eBay customer services themselves and ask to be refunded. I would NOT myself voluntarily refund because you are not at fault and haven't got the item back. You want to push the buyer to get a refund from eBay because that is much easier for you than the buyer having to use the last resort of a chargeback case from their bank (which is hard for you to win).