could the new HMRC rules SEE A MASS EXODUS FROM E BAY

[reasonable-robert]

hi ...(quote)

From 1 January 2024, new UK digital sales reporting legislation requires eBay, and other UK digital marketplaces, to report a user’s sales over clearly defined thresholds to HMRC. 

For more information about UK digital sales reporting and what information will be shared with HMRC, visit our Help page.

Please also see guidance from HMRC for more information on when you may or may not need to pay tax for selling goods online.

It is important to be aware that this is not a new tax or a change to existing tax rules for people who use online marketplaces. 

Required UK digital sales reporting should only affect newly registered accounts in 2024 and all accounts in 2025 who pass either of the below calendar year sales thresholds on eBay: 

• Total sales on eBay is equal to or more than €2,000 (approximately £1,740) after deducting fees and commissions or taxes
• 30 or more sales transactions are completed on eBay (cancelled transactions are not included in the calculation)
• Starting from January 2025, the prior calendar year's information will be reported to HMRC each January and a copy of the reported data will be provided to sellers. We recommend that you consult HMRC or a tax advisor if you have any questions about your tax obligations. 

In order to pay tax on the goods or services you sell online, you either have to be trading or making a capital gain.

If you are just selling some unwanted possessions that have been lying around your home, such as the contents of a loft or garage, it is unlikely that you will have to pay income tax. If you sell possessions for more than you paid for them you may have to pay capital gains tax, but only if you exceed your annual allowance for such gains (currently £6,000). For more information on capital gains tax on personal possessions, see guidance from HMRC.

If you buy goods for resale, or make goods with the intention of selling them for a profit, then you are likely to be trading and will have to pay tax on your profits.

However, if your total income from trading or providing services online was less than £1,000 (before deducting expenses) in any tax year, you would not be required to inform HMRC nor pay any tax on the profits (this is due to the Trading and Miscellaneous Income Allowance). .......(unquote)

so unless you,re a freind of the tories, non dom, a member of the royal family or own a big business then the tax man will be after you.

the fall out as many people have said will be sellers looking elsewhere to sell.

facebook could only comply if you sell on the marketplace as the local sites are independantly run by individuals acting as admins so they would have to get every site to report sellers over a certain threshold which couldnt realisticly be done.

meanwhile back at e bay could this see a mass drop in members, sales and sellers both business and private walking away from e bay as 30 transactions in a year is easily achieveable in just one month.

it looks as if e bay could finally morph into the rival shopping destination to amazon its desperate to become and before the B.S clap their hands and cheer remember that when people walk away theres only those who are looking for certain items that you may sell left.

lots of competetitors selling the same thing not just here but on amazon and other sites and the chinese sellers....call it reality.

now lets have a sensible discussion without silly comments please.     

[lucy_farmer]

'Asking  for your personal details does not mean you have to give them, and that is a choice for everyone to make'

You are absolutely right there.

But ebay, being a private company can decide they don't want your custom if you don't give them what they want.*. 

So....no NINO, no selling on ebay.

(*not sure ebay want  your details which may  lose customers this way, but HMRC and various money-laundering rules aren't giving them the choice..)

What is making me seriously fed up, is HMRC  'making tax digital'.  Any costs to put against your tax payment having to be paid by credit/debit card.

The inability to use cash (which is Legal Tender) to buy things 'on the books'.

It's not as though HMRC is a private company that can dump us and tell us to find somebody else to provide the same service (the way ebay theoretically can, for instance....)

[papso22]

What is making me seriously fed up, is HMRC  'making tax digital'.  Any costs to put against your tax payment having to be paid by credit/debit card.

Can you provide a link to that please?

As far as I can see MTD requires you to keep digital records, not paper ones, but you can digitally record a cash purchase.

[lucy_farmer]

'but you can digitally record a cash purchase.'

?? perhaps the accountant who told me had got that a bit arseaboutface??

Hope you're right, but I still don't want to have to spend money on a 'quick-books' or similar system when it cost me sod-all to do it before...😕

[dch2112011]

Here is ebay's latest announcement to the papers - there is another article circulating from the star with a bit more detail

ebay and HMRC 

[papso22]

I don't think there could be less detail if they tried!

What it does show is how few sellers take the time to read Ebay's announcements.  I realise that very few come to the boards but they are just another source of information, not the only source.

[vintique*violet]

 I have previously expressed my concerns for plans not to continue to use eBay either selling or buying - due to  their  continuous changes ( amongst a few other things) which do not reflect my personal morals or criteria. 

We have a choice and we must use discernment and do what is best for us/families etc. 

HMRC tax/customs authority is part of the Uk Government, Government  were  registered on Companies house as a private Ltd company ( dissolved in 2023) - in part it is because they trade in stocks, properties , businesses etc using tax payers funds... all of this can be researched - it runs deep.   Government & Big businesses/Corporates are joining together and the push for everything/one to be  online/ digital  ( and introduce CBDC's - no cash ) so  there actually will be no privacy as all information will be exchanged (  probably already is) as part of the " Build Back Better"  ... but not for us... it is for stakeholders...  we are the " stake"... 

Edit. spelling 

[the_book_seekers]

Given that three quarters (76%) make less than £150 annually from selling online and would not be impacted by the change in the rules, the detrimental effects could be avoided.

This to me means eBay has just 24% of sellers to look at for those businesses registered as private sellers. 

[theelench]

I've read the linked article several times and am still not sure if the part you quote means 24% of all sellers of if the ebay rep. is referring to 24% of private sellers.  In which case ebay wouldn't even have to look at 24% of all sellers, just 24% of private sellers??

I don't recall ever seeing ebay giving such precise figures for the number of sellers before and find it interesting.  Surely very few of those making "less than £150 annually" will be registered as a business?

Does that means that 76% of private sellers are actually making less than £150 a year and does that back-up what I've been saying about the site now pushing Sponsorship to make any sales at all, unless by pure luck?

More importantly IMO, how many items are those 76% listing to get that £150?  If they're listing one a month, perhaps that's not too bad.  If they're listing one a week I'd say that's not too good.

I say this because it's been my practice for some years to list one new item each week.  That used to produce, what to me, was a reasonable level of sales for my minimal effort.  (Lets say about 1 sale a month).

'22 and '23 I made 13 sales each year.

2024 and so far I've sold 4 items, despite not only listing 1 item a week but also going through the "Sell Similar" rigmarole at intervals and letting the number of listings increase.

That, to me, is not any sort of reasonable reward for my increased effort and I've given up listing anything for about the last month.  With such meager results there seems little point

Is this why ebay has hit the panic button  and made it "Free to Sell" for private sellers?  Because with so little to show for their efforts the mass exodus has moved from "Could there be a..." to "There now is a mass exodus" and it's becoming more obvious to business sellers left without buyers?

[myriad*seller]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

'Asking  for your personal details does not mean you have to give them, and that is a choice for everyone to make'

You are absolutely right there.

But ebay, being a private company can decide they don't want your custom if you don't give them what they want.*. 

So....no NINO, no selling on ebay.

(*not sure ebay want  your details which may  lose customers this way, but HMRC and various money-laundering rules aren't giving them the choice..)

What is making me seriously fed up, is HMRC  'making tax digital'.  Any costs to put against your tax payment having to be paid by credit/debit card.

The inability to use cash (which is Legal Tender) to buy things 'on the books'.

It's not as though HMRC is a private company that can dump us and tell us to find somebody else to provide the same service (the way ebay theoretically can, for instance....)

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Eh? 

My latest tax demand that I have in my hand gives a Girobank payment slip allowing you to pay your taxes by cash at any bank or post office? 

Ways to pay (stated on the letter)

Direct Debit

Bank payment

OR by CASH or Cheque at your bank or building society

Not sure where you got "digital payments only" from, did you just make it up? 

[myriad*seller]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

'but you can digitally record a cash purchase.'

?? perhaps the accountant who told me had got that a bit arseaboutface??

Hope you're right, but I still don't want to have to spend money on a 'quick-books' or similar system when it cost me sod-all to do it before...😕

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My accounting software is free and very easy to use (Free Agent). It comes with my free business bank account (Mettle) and is integrated so it makes doing my accounts very quick and easy.

[*devils.advocate*]

Providing a NINO will have some effect on numbers of private sellers, maybe not as much as I initially thought.

Even so, some will refuse and possibly be lost, importantly, as buyers.

But NINOs coupled with the introduction of Simple Delivery (even with the opt-out, if you know it's there) will have a consequence which will adversely affect everyone eventually.

[dch2112011]

Here is another take on it from the daily star 

HMRC warns everyone taking in more than £1000 needs to fill in a tax return even if there is no tax ... 

But the most recent seems nearer to the facts and is based on a HMRC statement

HMRC statement via Daily Star 

[lucy_farmer]

'Not sure where you got "digital payments only" from, did you just make it up? '

Ah , I think we may be at cross-purposes here?

 I didn't mean actually paying my tax bill (is that what you meant?)

I meant paying for stuff for business reasons that can be put *against* tax....

And having heard from more people who do do tax returns, it may be that the accountant who told me this has got it wrong? 

[myriad*seller]

Of course you can put receipts against tax if you paid with cash! 

I buy food in shops when out on site, I buy parking tickets , I pay the tolls to get over the bridge (or I used to) all with cash

I buy items for my business with my personal bank account, business bank account and cash. I claim all of these items as expenses. 

Then I put these receipts in my accounts as expenses! 

It doesn't matter how you pay for the items, they can all be claimed as expenses! 

Get a new accountant, as  he is talking out of his hat! 

[lucy_farmer]

'...as  he is talking out of his hat! '

Perhaps they are...... they also keep a tarantula in a cage in the office, which I also find a little unsettling!

😱

[myriad*seller]

As long as it stays in the cage, that's fine! 

I always check things like that to check the creature is STILL in there, before I can settle 

My neighbours corn snake was loose in the house for months. I always checked my bed fully before getting into it. 

[lucy_farmer]

'My neighbours corn snake was loose in the house for months. I always checked my bed fully before getting into it. '

...omg.....

😱😱😱

I think I'd move house......

[tammysweet74]

I am private seller , I don't want to be filling in self assessment forms , as I've never done this before , I am on carers allowance and do not have a job, but it still "scared" me when the big red notice came up on my app!! , as I worry the tax office can make mistakes etc , just a worrywort , 

I'm guessing they check bank accounts too , as eBay hand over everything!

[vintique*violet]

Please do not worry, if you are selling your personal possessions all will be fine ... if you are " trading" ie. buying items to sell or making items to sell with the intention of making a " profit"...then you really should be declaring this income, this is done with self assessment on the HMRC website ( you can find further information there to assist you)...Plus remember you have a personal tax allowance of £12750 per year... as you are not employed and  on "carers allowance" a quick call to HMRC would alleviate any concerns as they can let you know what you need to do, if anything at all.  

As for the "spying" into peoples bank accounts,it is not eBay it is the Gov, and  personally in my opinion, they are taking an absolute liberty! 

@tammysweet74 

[sml192]

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@vintique*violet wrote:

Plus remember you have a personal tax allowance of £12750 per year...

Oops, a typo there I think!   

Should be £12,570 not £12,750.