Simple <flicking> Delivery

[uk.olga6913]

Dear Sellers, 

Have you noticed anything new re this Simple Delivery? I sell items that used to be exempt - vintage and antique porcelain. Until yesterday I had an option to select Advanced Postage Options. Yesterday this option disappeared and I can't get it back. The list of exempt categories has also changed. What happened? Was there an unannounced update?! 

I am so upset about this stupid "improvement". 

With kind regards,

Olga 

[thepillenwerfer]

Simple Delivery is constantly being "Improved" so what works one day may or may not the next.  Hopefully it'll settle-down in time but that's not much good to us NOW.

You can still switch Evri off at least and just use Royal Mail.  There's no way of using specialist antique and fine art couriers though.

[lucy_farmer · Accepted solution]

'vintage and antique porcelain.'

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Under the Simple Delivery system, ebay state they are responsible, and will be paying refunds for, items 'lost or damaged in the post'.

Well, good, that's only fair isn't it?  If ebay *aren't* giving you the opportunity to choose your own method of delivery (special delivery etc...)

But, of course, there is the 'small print'.

Items will be covered provided they conform to Simple Delivery terms and the carriers' terms.  These carriers' terms include something called the 'excluded from compensation list'.  If you've never read the exclusion list, please do (it's on the Evri site) ...it's good for a laugh😂

We still have no definitive answer of exactly what ebay will cover or not: we have found out (the hard way for one poor seller) that precious metals *won't* be covered. Until there is a test case for things like vintage porcelain, we have no idea if ebay will cover it or not....another unfortunate seller may have to find out the hard way too.

As you are forced to use (possibly uninsured) Simple Delivery, they way round it is the, rather clunky, following:

List your item as 'seller pays', with the cost of special or your choice of delivery included in the price.

When the item sells, print the S.D. label (to get the address) but don't use it.

Post with your choice of postage.

Add *your* tracking number into the sale . (this is possible, though fiddly, other posters here have done it!)

Request a refund of the unused Simple postage cost. (this must be done within 14 days of the sale; the refund *should* arrive after 30 days).

Ebay moan that if you *don't* use Simple Del, you *don't* get the benefits of Simple Del..... well, until you can be sure you will recieve those benefits, I'd avoid it like the plague.

[theelench]

"We still have no definitive answer of exactly what ebay will cover or not:"

I doubt we ever will get a definitive answer from ebay.  Surely, if they are not going to cover anything on the RM and Evri Excluded Lists it would be easy enough to re-print or attach those lists to the SD marketing blurb ?

Why haven't ebay done that ?   Because, from what I've read (I only ever read the RM list) and from what others have said here, evri's list is even more extensive and together would exclude swathes of items from ebays guarantee.

Such as glass, pottery, porcelain, fine art, precious metals, coins, bank notes, to name just a few, but would probably include most old, fragile or collectable items.  Possibly to such an extent that SD would be revealed to only be suitable for new items still in the manufacturers packaging (and even some of those doubtful).

My advice would be to ignore ebays T&Cs and START by reading (in full) both RM and Evri's T&Cs and exclusion lists.  THEN look at ebay's and try to find if they specifically state something different that overrides the carrier's conditions.  If it doesn't then it will be the carriers T&Cs that will be THE deciding factor.  Whatever else ebays marketing blurb implies should be dis-regarded. 

[akemp1]

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@theelench wrote:

My advice would be to ignore ebays T&Cs and START by reading (in full) both RM and Evri's T&Cs and exclusion lists.  THEN look at ebay's and try to find if they specifically state something different that overrides the carrier's conditions.  If it doesn't then it will be the carriers T&Cs that will be THE deciding factor.  Whatever else ebays marketing blurb implies should be dis-regarded. 

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It's completely unreasonable for ebay to expect it's private sellers to understand the precedence of the conflicting contract terms when backreferencing their supplier terms. That's something even commercial layers can struggle to establish and make mistakes over.

Ebay should just have one set of terms that are well structured and incorporate ('flows up') relevant clauses from their suppliers terms. It's lazy contract management to reference their supplier terms which is causing this confusion.

SD is the worst change I have seen on ebay in my 24 years. It reeks, even the name is deceitful.

[9150simon]

I agree, it's a horrible change and I feel sympathy for any private seller trying to navigate their way through all the rules and regulations, from not only ebays T&C's but having to cross reference these with the carriers T&C's.  I am surprised anyone selling in the categories mentioned above are still selling.

I do think (and am dreading the day) that it will be rolled out to business sellers also.  

What a mess ebay, you have had too many changes too close together and people don't know if they are coming or going.

[akemp1]

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@9150simon wrote:

too many changes too close together and people don't know if they are coming or going.

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I suspect they are mostly going.

[theelench]

I'd say it's definitely unreasonable but not "lazy" at all.  It's quite deliberately setting private sellers up to have their property lost, stolen or destroyed with no come-back on ebay.  That's all ebay is interested in.

There was someone on here who asked several times for clarification as to whether ebay is selling SD as it's own product or only acting as an agent for the delivery companies.  They stressed the importance of the point as it matters greatly when it comes to getting compensation for the inevitable losses.  Again total silence from ebay.

What private sellers are being enticed into by ebay's marketing team as a simple delivery solution, run by ebay and guaranteeing compensation for loss or damage while the item is in their system, is nothing of the sort.

No doubt ebay will be happy to make money while things go well but its silence shouts that its planning to abandon private sellers when things go wrong.  It has three sets of T&Cs to pick and choose from when denying claims and the ambiguity of whether it is owns the service and contracts with the delivery companies to deliver or whether it's the agent for those companies, so can pass the buck to them when failures occur.

It's a totally cavalier attitude towards private sellers and their property IMO.  There's nothing simple or safe about it and the longer ebay refuses to clarify what is covered by "it's" guarantee of compensation and "who" exactly is giving that guarantee just makes it clearer that in all probability ALL THE RISK lies with the seller if they are foolish enough to use it.

[moonlight-rhapsody]

"Ebay should just have one set of terms that are well structured and incorporate ('flows up') relevant clauses from their suppliers terms. It's lazy contract management to reference their supplier terms which is causing this confusion."

Indeed, they could have done a chart showing with a tick or a cross which items are covered or excluded, depending on whether it's RM or Evri, and agreed with RM/Evri to advise them if the exclusions change.

I think it's being too kind to think that ebay are simply being lazy in not incorporating suppliers' T&Cs into their own.  I think it's more likely that they want to obscure the fact that there are a vast number of items that are excluded from SD protection.

[lucy_farmer]

'I think it's more likely that they want to obscure the fact that there are a vast number of items that are excluded from SD protection.'

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Yep.

 If it was obvious what was covered and what wasn't, a lot of the more worred or careful sellers would sell somewhere else and that'd hit ebay's bottom line.

(just tihnk of the amounts of phones, tablets, cameras, lenses, jewellery for example, that are sold by private sellers- loads!)

I think ebay are banking on the probability of the stolen, lost or damaged items *not* also being on the list-of-doom.

As the majority of sales go just fine and the majority of buyers are not crooks, the majority of sellers will have no idea how close they might get to losing out.

The few that do get caught will just be 'collateral damage' .  Losing a few unfortuate sellers won't bother them at all.

Ebay will have scrutinised this to the nth degree to make sure they are *just* on the right side of legal.

[uk.olga6913]

Actually, RM does not exclude porcelain from insurance. I am currently waiting a reply on my claim - those idiots managed to smash a lid to antique Royal Worcester pot pourri that was exceptionally well packed. 

But I thought that this was exactly the reason why they excluded porcelain and glass from Simple Delivery scheme. I'll try to get in touch with their Customer Service tomorrow. 

[uk.olga6913]

You are a business seller? I am thinking of converting my account into a business one, but I can't understand all the T&C and compulsory payments. How much does ebay charge you? Do you get any free listing allowance? Is it more convenient then a private seller account?

[bizzy-lizzy99]

If you buy to sell on then you are by law a business seller. If you're selling your own unwanted stuff then you are a private seller. If you register as a business seller you'll have to inform HMRC, register for self-assessment and pay tax on your nett profits. You'll also have to trade on eBay within the law regarding business sellers, disclosing your trading address, accepting returns etc.

[9150simon]

Following on from the helpful advice from bizzy-lizzy99, by changing to a business account, your buyer will cease having to pay a buyer protection fee, but you will then be charged a final value fee, possibly plus VAT depending on the items you are selling and it may benefit you to open a shop - again depending on what you are selling and how many.  There are 3 levels of shop fees, which you can search to see which one would suit you, this will give you an amount of free listings each month - obviously for a fee to ebay.

But to reiterate bizzy-lizzy99's comment, if you are buying or making items to sell for profit, you are a business and should register as one.

Good luck.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

Going in my case, at the moment i have 6 items listed, 4 with freight as a work around and 2 under the minimum for SD (neither of which have had a view!).   I am hoping that within a couple of days i will have got round to listing on the other site and then i will be gone.

[uk.olga6913]

Lucy hi, 

Do you know how to add a tracking number to the order if I arrange my own postage? I tried to find a way today and no luck. You can't edit tracking number and you can't add additional one. 

[tressygirl]

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@uk.olga6913 wrote:

Lucy hi, 

Do you know how to add a tracking number to the order if I arrange my own postage? I tried to find a way today and no luck. You can't edit tracking number and you can't add additional one. 

Probably best to use a laptop /PC with Chrome that combo works best , and not the app or mobile browser,  might not work on those devices,  then....

• Go to "Orders Paid & Dispatched"
• Click on "View order details"
• Within the "Postage" section there's a small dropdown arrow next to "Track Package" - click on that.
• Click on the "Add tracking" option
• A box will come up with the current tracking number . Delete that and replace it with your tracking.

@uk.olga6913 

[uk.olga6913]

Lucy, you are the star!!! Thank you so much! I am almost sure, it's a bug and sooner or later they will amend it. But for now it's a solution!