The Death of Auctions?

[ett1954]

Has anyone seen this gem to come soon in the summer update to affect auctions (my bold italics):

Reducing unpaid items

Placing a bid

Additionally, buyers on select auctions will be required to set up a preferred payment method and postal address before they can place a bid. After winning an auction, they’ll have one hour to adjust their order or payment details, otherwise we’ll automatically process their order using their preferred payment method. No action is required from the seller.

These changes will help to improve the auction process on eBay by providing buyers with the ability to decide how they want to pay, whilst also ensuring that sellers receive payment for their sales. The goal is to foster a more efficient and dependable experience for the entire eBay community.

From FAQs:

No changes are needed with how you set up your listings. You should expect to see fewer unpaid items on items sold through auctions as we test and launch changes.

You can still combine multiple purchases from the same buyer in a single shipment, but please be aware that a buyer may be automatically charged for postage costs for each individual item when payments are processed.

As a buyer, you may be prompted to provide a payment method and select a postal address prior to placing a bid on an auction. You'll have the ability to edit these details before the auction ends. If you win the auction, you'll be given a one hour period to make any changes. If no changes are made, we’ll automatically charge your default payment method. 

---------------------

There is no opt out mentioned for this 'feature'; without one it will be the end of auctions on eBay for me.  A few things immediately spring to mind.  I don't have problems with non-payers but I do have regular, long-standing buyers of 8 years or more who bid on items spanning across 10 days or even longer.  Combining multiple wins into one order is a necessity; especially with lower value items.

Many of my buyers are international and on a completely different time zone - what they win can determine how and where they want it sent (forwarding agents, etc.)  How do they respond in an hour if an auction is finishing at 3 am for them, or if they are at work, travelling, etc.

I had thought eBay had learnt their lesson from the debacle of immediate payments on Buy it Now listings.  My acceptance level from offers sent is now virtually nil.  What I do foresee is an increase in 'remorse' returns for business sellers running auctions in some sectors.  Sure we will see a lot less non-payers ..... this will be in conjunction with a lot less sales.

One final question for eBay - where is this supposed feedback you received stating sellers want this ........ nobody has asked me.  Has anyone on these boards been asked?  Please publish this data along with the agency you commissioned to carry out the research.

[bzmotman]

marco@ebay

I just want to support & add to @ett1954 on this subject.

It is the international angle that is the most concerning. At present by issuing a combined invoice the buyers pays the correct tax to Ebay. Ebay then transfer the sales data required for issuing a label & CN22 direct to the Royal Mail. All as a seller all we have to do is pack the item & print the label.

Now under this new system for say 6 sales we will have to refund postage but Ebay will transfer the 6 lots of separate sales data to RM so when we send the items we will have cancel all 6 labels/CN22 because none of them will have the total of all the sales. Then we have to generate a manual order which as you can see needs Sale total, tax total & total of the 2. The only way to get this information is to go into each order separately & to then work it out taking in account the refunds plus any alteration to tax that this might have caused.

 

I would suggest that there will be few sellers who want to spend non-productive time doing this. Assuming the seller does proceed they then have enter each sale individually onto the CN22 plus of course Ebays IOSS number. So we go from printing a label/CN22 which took perhaps 30 seconds to something that will now take perhaps 5 mins or longer depending on how many sales are in the order & of course there is the possibility of human error as well.

The other issue is will a foreign buyer be prepared to pay 6 lots of postage & trust the seller to do a refund -would you?

All that is needed to save international multiple sales disappearing is to add an opt out button - surely not that difficult.

[*vyolla*]

marco@ebay Maybe I'm getting this wrong, but if I have one buyer who wins one auction a day for 7 days and I then present them with a combined invoice, I get charged my eBay final value fee plus 30p.

If the buyer has to pay for each item within an hour of the auction ending I believe that I am then getting charged 30p for each of those 7 payments, which I can't get back.

So, eBay would be making an extra £1.90 from me?

[ett1954]

A good point, I missed that one.

Surprise, surprise; more fee take magical innovations from eBay.

It will be interesting to see how quickly this issue gets resolved.

[zoomingmouse]

Do you know will this work with cash upon collection sales? 

I will only pay cash if I'm collecting something as I want to make sure it's OK before I pay?

Also I often buy multiples from one seller.

If I win the first item, I then bid on the second, then third & so on <sometimes over a few days>, but I won't be happy to provide payment details upfront, on a promise that excess postage will be refunded afterwards.

I also only sell via auctions & would prefer it to stay as it is with the UPID. However, as others have suggested, an addition whereby Ebay penalises or removes serial non-payers would be welcome.

The new proposal, seems to create yet more work & barriers between genuine buyers & sellers, who I'm sure just want to buy & sell easily & quickly. 

[bcstampsuk]

---

If the buyer has to pay for each item within an hour of the auction ending I believe that I am then getting charged 30p for each of those 7 payments, which I can't get back.

If this went ahead then yes, you would be significantly overcharged and under the current implementation of managed payments you wouldn't get those fees back.

I've been reading the thread on the US boards - this seems to be being actively rolled out but despite what Marco said they seem to have opt-in / opt-out, albeit some sellers have been opted-in without being informed. Opting out of this is going to be essential. There is no way to work around the mass of problems this creates for certain types of auctions.

As an optional feature it actually makes a lot of sense for some sellers. The one hour window seems far too short, but for a seller using auctions infrequently or who does not offer any postage discounts then I can see this being a welcome feature if it gave 24 hours.

If there was no opt-out one big change I would have to make would be to move my very highest expected price items away from the eBay platform and consign them through the London auction houses instead. Buyers bidding 4 figure sums are not going to be okay with these kind of sums of money being taken from a payment source with one hour warning.

Imagine you are bidding on a very rare postal history item where nothing similar has come on the market for years and value is difficult to assess. You hope to get it for around £1500, but you REALLY want it so will go as high as £6k. Does eBay expect the buyer to move money around to make £6k available on their debit card just incase? What if they win and the payment bounces because they assumed it wouldn't go above £3k? Over the years I've moved more and more "big ticket" items away from live auctions and been more and more brave with what I auction on eBay. This would have to reverse without an opt-out.

[bcstampsuk]

"Opting out of this is going to be essential."

That should say:

"The option to opt of this is going to be essential."

Obviously as I went onto say - this is a perfectly good option for some sellers / situations.

[amphibolous]

There are so many situations that eBay have not accounted for here, that the only real (and simple solution) is to opt everybody out by default, and give them the option to opt in.

[technthread]

---

@*vyolla* wrote:

marco@ebay Maybe I'm getting this wrong, but if I have one buyer who wins one auction a day for 7 days and I then present them with a combined invoice, I get charged my eBay final value fee plus 30p.

If the buyer has to pay for each item within an hour of the auction ending I believe that I am then getting charged 30p for each of those 7 payments, which I can't get back.

So, eBay would be making an extra £1.90 from me?

---

It is so irritating when a buyer wins multiple auctions and then decides to pay for each item one by one at checkout. 

Maybe an eBay fee credit to sellers would solve this problem moving forward. After all they will be advising sellers (who don't do free postage) to retrospectively make an adjustment in the same fashion.

[a45heaven]

It is so irritating when a buyer wins multiple auctions and then decides to pay for each item one by one at checkout. 

I think youll find (from my own experiences as a buyer) - paying separately for items at check out is down to yet another ebay mal-function at the checkouts.

The 'request total' tabs dont work, and do you trust the message system which are monitored by ebay to allow all messages through in a timely manner?

[bcstampsuk]

eBay's communication around this change has been appalling, but it appears this is a feature which on my account had automatically been switched on. I'll be switching this off now.

Attached screenshot from Seller Hub - Shortcuts - Selling preferences - Your buyers - Managing who can buy from you - then under Buyer Rules is the new option "Require buyers to provide a payment method before they place a bid"

marco@ebay - can you let eBay know that eBay have added this tickbox?

[vinylscot]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that option has been there for some time.

However's, eBay's ill-thought-out messaging strongly suggests (at the moment) that there will NOT be an opt-out once the new, "improved" procedures are put into place regarding auctions. It's just another flaw in their plans - there will be fewer last-minute impulse bids on auctions (from newer members, anyway), if every potential buyer needs to have pre-registered a payment method prior to bidding. What an omnishambles!

[a45heaven]

Require buyers to provide a payment method before they place a bid 

Shouldnt ebay check this when they allow anyone to become a member?

Maybe along with multiple accounts to same person at same address?

Do we not pay ebay to manage site, not to delegate these duties to  sellers to perform?

[ett1954]

@vinylscot  I believe that box has been added in the last month.  I have just checked my settings and it is there, and what's more it is pre-ticked.  The tick-box for BINs has been there for some time.

I check these settings regularly and it wasn't there whenI last checked approximately a month ago.  In addition Marco's response on this thread a couple of days ago said there was no opt out at the moment.

The last two weeks my auctions have tanked with no international sales from them.

marco@ebay  Can you please advise when this tick box for auto payments on auctions was added to the settings as it would appear the information you were given is incorrect as not only is there an option to opt out  but this announced forthcoming 'feature' is already in place.

@bcstampsuk Thanks for 'heads-up'  Now unticked.

[bcstampsuk]

According to discussion on the US board this option was briefly added earlier in the year when there was apparently a very hastily abandoned US trial of the 1 hour auction payment. According to posters the option was removed again and only reappeared a few days ago. I can't remember when I last checked, but its definitely not been there long term.

"Shouldnt ebay check this when they allow anyone to become a member?"

I don't think this has anything to do with whether a member has payment methods stored. I think it means requiring the buyer to commit to the automatic payment method for their specific auction bid - the topic of this thread.

[*vyolla*]

I've not seen the top buyer preference before, the one about having a payment method before a bid can be placed, only the second preference about having a payment method registered before making an offer. 

I didn't tick that either. On the plus side, at least there's an opt out to it. 

[wellingnorth]

---

@bcstampsuk wrote:

eBay's communication around this change has been appalling, but it appears this is a feature which on my account had automatically been switched on. I'll be switching this off now.

Attached screenshot from Seller Hub - Shortcuts - Selling preferences - Your buyers - Managing who can buy from you - then under Buyer Rules is the new option "Require buyers to provide a payment method before they place a bid"

---

Well spotted, very helpful, this link should also take you straight to the relevant section:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/bmgt/buyerrequirements

[vinylscot]

@ett1954 I think this must be getting "rolled out" at the moment.

That box requiring prospective biders to register a payment method wasn't there when I looked earlier this morning. I cleared my cookies and checked again, and there it is, presumptively ticked by eBay.

Obviously, I have now unticked it, but it will still affect my listings, as buyers who haven't been able to bid elsewhere will assume they can't bid on my listings either.

Obviously, Marco is being fed inaccurate info from his superiors, as I'm sure he would have corrected his earlier statement, if he had known it actually gone live (as seems to have happened). 

[ett1954]

For such an important change to the auction settings this change should have been highlighted and clearly explained as a major feature within the summer update - not hidden away with no clear indication of when it would be introduced and with no clarity on what it entailed and the potential implications for members.  0 stars for communication eBay.

It should also not be auto ticked as it can have major implications for anyone selling to EU countries from the UK when they cannot combine shipping on multi-order transactions that have been paid individually.  I guess the boards will be full of international combined order queries and issues over the next few weeks from both buyers and sellers.

In short this should be an opt-in feature, not an opt-out.

[tommystrezures]

Its just been promptly unrolled out on our settings, so thank you to who ever spotted that this morning. Much appreciated.

It certainly wasn't there yesterday as we were amending something in our buyer requirements first thing. 

I am going to put a new thread up with this information, as for many they will see that length of this thread and may not take time to read through to find this critical information.

In the mean time shame on you ebay for not announcing thats its been rolled out, and shame on you for not telling users how to opt out. Shame on you also for not addressing any of the issues that were highlighted when you implemented the same with BIN's. The excuse given here about refunding buyers postage is a cop out, the additional work with having to raise so much extra paperwork on overseas orders, and the sneaky we can take an additional 30p per order as you buyers can't combine orders into one.... An utter disgrace.

[*vyolla*]

---

@tommystrezures wrote:

Its just been promptly unrolled out on our settings, so thank you to who ever spotted that this morning. Much appreciated.

It certainly wasn't there yesterday as we were amending something in our buyer requirements first thing. 

I am going to put a new thread up with this information, as for many they will see that length of this thread and may not take time to read through to find this critical information.

---

I'd post twice - here and the Business Seller board.