Private Seller - Minimum Selling Price is £1.75+ ?

[ankocat]

Hello, I recently returned to eBay to sell off the doubles of my card collection but I've ran into a few issues.

One of which is, most of my cards aren't very valuable so, as an example one is going for around £1.45 on ebay currently. However, as I can only input £0.99 as the lowest price, due to the Buyer Protection Fee being added to the listing price, I can only sell it for £1.75+.

Plus, added to this if I am actually able to sell the item and offer free shipping too, meaning I lose £0.85 on the £0.99 if only 1 is sold.

How is this fair?

[missdollydaydream]

You are a private seller, you don't need to compete. If they aren't going to make what think they are worth, hang onto them and sell them when they mature in value. After all, they aren't really taking up valuable storage space, are they?

[susapric-68]

Did you check the person selling for £1.45, old trick is to add some random rubbish to make a low starting price for position but when you click on most other stuff the price will be a lot higher. Animal crossing is in demand so price each so you don't lose any money. You have a good selection of villagers and fans of the game will pay it 

[ankocat]

Yeah I checked, it's not just one seller though, plus in that £1.45 example in particular they are also running a multibuy discount of 20% so that item would actually cost £1.16. eBay has removed this feature for private sellers to use.

But the buyers will always buy the cheapest copy right? I would. 
The seller also has 10 copies of that one card so I would have to wait until every one of those sold before anyone even looked at mine. Thanks for replying though.
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Missdollydaydream you say I don't need to compete, but I do if I want my things to sell. 
A really unhelpful answer.

[dch2112011]

It sounds as though your competitor is a business who will pay fees but would not have the same selling policies that a private account would have.

Your options are to register as a business account to compete in the same manner or rethink your selling strategy which would be to sell in batches.

The reason a private account is simplified is that it is solely geared towards sellers of unwanted personal items which generally are one off used items which have no costs attached to them.

- an unwanted personal item is purchased for own use and when it is no longer required it is cashed in rather than sending it to landfill - any price achieved is therefore a bonus.

A business purchases to resell and has overheads and sales costs to cover so prices reflect that.

As a personal seller disposing of unwanted items you could sell at 99p including postage or whatever figure you want - the idea being that you have bought the item a long time ago, enjoyed it and now you no longer want it and rather than binning it you are simply passing it on for less than it cost you. 

[eastern_standard_time]

"- an unwanted personal item is purchased for own use and when it is no longer required it is cashed in rather than sending it to landfill - any price achieved is therefore a bonus."

Not really... if I bought an album for £3.99 in 1980 and it's now going for £50 then I'm not going to accept £2.50 and say "Hey! It's better than sending it to the landfill!"

[ankocat]

I almost think AI wrote this, but I will indulge you

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@dch2112011 wrote:

Your options are to register as a business account to compete in the same manner or rethink your selling strategy which would be to sell in batches.

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I need to register as business account to sell my own personal items? in this case one stack of card doubles I've had forever?
And yes while I may be forced to sell in batches eventually, it's hardly ideal as buyers will want to buy individual cards to complete their collections, I do this myself.

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@dch2112011 wrote:

- an unwanted personal item is purchased for own use and when it is no longer required it is cashed in rather than sending it to landfill - any price achieved is therefore a bonus.

A business purchases to resell and has overheads and sales costs to cover so prices reflect that.

As a personal seller disposing of unwanted items you could sell at 99p including postage or whatever figure you want - the idea being that you have bought the item a long time ago, enjoyed it and now you no longer want it and rather than binning it you are simply passing it on for less than it cost you. 

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Much like Eastern_Standard_Time mentioned, any price is not a bonus. I'm not disposing of cards, I'm selling them to other collectors who want these specific ones and I want to sell them at market value like everyone else is doing.

£0.99 - £0.85 = £0.14

If a buyer buys 1 card on it's own, this is how much I get. After putting it in a card protector and an envelope that I bought, I'm losing money.
The £0.75 unfairly effects cheaper items and really needs to scale down with the price.

[suelel1968]

I agree with you on all fronts really.

Of course Private sellers look at other sellers prices a price to compete and make a sale for a good price.

Of course you don't need to be a business to sell personal items.

Batches or joblots rarely sell for a decent price, so not really a good way forward.

The BPF is anti low priced items. I personally think this is by design as low priced listings just clutter up the site.

The real question is how does a business seller sell so cheaply. Assuming they bought the items in a joblot and got lucky with the price, with shop or listing fees and postage and packaging with multi buy discounts on top it cannot be easy to make a living. 

Have you checked sold prices? When I do that I can never understand why people don't always buy the cheapest ie mine, but they don't. I would stick to a price you feel is worthy of each card and maybe just sell really common ones off at bear minimum just to improve your search ranking.

[susapric-68]

Took a look around. business seller selling DJ KK for £2, you're selling it for £1.94 to undercut and that would inc BPF. Even paying fees the business seller would be making more than you. on a £2 sale with low cost fees activated (15%+5p) they would only pay around 43p. They can also use multi buy to encourage people to buy more. Maybe think if you're trying to compete on price maybe business selling account would be better

[papso22]

Did you include the VAT on the selling fees?

There will also be listing fees (or shop fees), general overheads, the cost of the item, and tax, all to pay out of the £2.00 the business would get.

That's why business sellers are so annoyed with private accounts competing with them.

[susapric-68]

The 43p inc eBay VAT, listing fees on a multi listing would work out as less than a penny per item. 36p a month. Seller has the cost of the item even as a private seller. I was just pointing out as a business seller the OP would get £1.51p after eBay fees on the £1.94 sale, with BPF on £1.94 they would get much less. I'm guessing they listed around £1.20 to get the £1.94 so the extra they make on just 1 sale would cover the listing price for the month and they can offer multi buy discount to try and get bigger orders

[dch2112011]

It amazes me how some private account holders want to act as a business but without the costs

think that it is ok to undercut legitimate businesses with the same stock and cry foul when the limitations of the account they choose stops them from doing so,

In this thread the op is selling exactly the same range of repeat products as a registered business yet has chosen an account which gives them zero costs - it's free to sell !

The items are cheap and looking at the many businesses selling them they are readily obtainable wholesale for around the 5p to 10p mark  maybe even less - this creates the market price.

A business may buy in tens or hundreds of thousands of these throw away cheap items and relies on volume for their profit or even uses them to enhance their use of the ebay account

The OP states they are just selling items surplus to requirements  purchased as duplicates from the branded outlets at no doubt a premium price.

Some may speculate that buying two of everything could be construed as buying to trade  or it could be by buying in random packs two or more of a similar item were obtained ?

Either way by selling the unwanted duplicates it is trading ! It may not be trading in the terms of a business but it is still trading as is swopping items  or offering a service for payment in kind.

So to be able to trade the choice has to be a business account but if the OP decides to sell for free then they have to accept that a private account is not a trading account and has limited function, simplification for buyers  and buyers fees 

This private account is designed for non - traders selling a few unwanted personal possesions  in an easy way - no costs  involved for the sellers, no postage costs, no fees, no purchase costs, no overheads,

The few who complain are either trading or pretending to trade and seek to do so with the free selling benifit.

They also want the same conditions as a business seller  and the same conditions for buyers .

Buyers of unwanted second hand personal items  hav to pay for protection because private accounts have very little legal protection.

A business buyer  enjoys masses of legal protection paid for by the business. 

It is these members who want it all for nothing that has pushed ebay into the changes on private accounts  - this is what happens when members abuse ebay's good will - ebay impose their will !

[ruby*ryan]

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@dch2112011 wrote:

Buyers of unwanted second hand personal items  hav to pay for protection because private accounts have very little legal protection.

No they don't. The MBG is free - it's not  included in the BPF. They also most likely have protection from their payment provider.

If it is an attempt to make businesses register as such, rather than trade illegal on a private account, it's not been thought through very well. Personally, I don't think eBay are too bothered about unreg business sellers - if they were there are many simple things they could do to sort the issue, which they choose not to do.

So, it's not for the buyer's protection, probably not to force business sellers to register correctly, that just leaves 'make some money' the only reason. 

[dch2112011]

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@eastern_standard_time wrote:

" if I bought an album for £3.99 in 1980 and it's now going for £50 then I'm not going to accept £2.50 and say "Hey! It's better than sending it to the landfill!"

It would depend on whether you bought it to resell at a profit  and this was the motivation for keeping the item - or whether you purchased it had the benefit of  owning it then fell out of love with it  ie no longer had a use for it and wanted it disposed of ! 

In the first instance you have the choice of keeping it or selling it at the price you want and in the second instance if your motivation was to get rid of unwanted clutter you are not price driven and may dispose of it in landfill or give it away or sell it quick for whatever price someone will  buy it for be it 99p or £100 the motivation is getting rid of it !

If you believe every unloved  second hand item is worth a premium price and you try to sell it as a business would do for profit you could be construed as trading 

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[dch2112011]

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@ruby*ryan wrote:

No they don't. The MBG is free - it's not  included in the BPF. They also most likely have protection from their payment provider.

Research buyer protection that businesses have to provide - it may surprise you quite what is expected of a business, do the same for private sales and you will see the absolute lack of protection a genuine private seller has to provide.

The MBG  is paid for by businesses and previously private sellers - now businesses continue to pay and buyers pay when buying from private sellers along with enhanced protections

One thing is clear private account holders do not pay towards the mbg or any other protection - their buyers do !

Following your logic you must also believe that when a seller offers 'free delivery' that no one pays for it seller or buyer ! and I bet you don't really believe that ! So why would you believe the mbg is free and noone pays for it ?

[eastern_standard_time]

Picture me buying an album in 1980 and thinking "I know, this'll be worth a fortune in, ooh, 45 years or so". Yeah, that's likely...

"If you believe every unloved second hand item is worth a premium price and you try to sell it as a business would do for profit you could be construed as trading "

With all due respect, this is absolute nonsense. The rules on selling personal possessions are very clear, and the price they may or may not achieve has absolutely no bearing on one's status as a private seller.

[dch2112011]

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@eastern_standard_time wrote:

With all due respect, this is absolute nonsense. The rules on selling personal possessions are very clear, and the price they may or may not achieve has absolutely no bearing on one's status as a private seller.

Again do your research, it is a little complex but basically unwanted personal possesions are deemed to be so if owned for a minimum of six months and sold for less than the original purchase price 

Some  significantly older items  may be allowed to take current market value as the value for purchase price.

Collections are dealt with differently and trading is recognised as part of collecting but not in the sense of a business but in the sense of taxation.

[hugothecockapoo]

hi dch2112011 you forgot to mention once a seller hits over 30 sales a year or £3.000(i think} turnover ebay have to pass the details of the sellers account over to the friendly tax police. 

[eastern_standard_time]

HMRC's guidance seems pretty clear to me, especially as I'm not selling anything for £6000 or more, but I'd be interested to know the source for these claims:

"...basically unwanted personal possesions [sic] are deemed to be so if owned for a minimum of six months and sold for less than the original purchase price

Some significantly older items may be allowed to take current market value as the value for purchase price."

So, like the OPs postcards then? Or the example of the 45 year old album I used earlier?

[department28]

Perhaps eBay should introduce a third selling category that would 'bridge the gap' between private and business...?

Those wanting to have a big clear-out, or downsize, may have lots of collectibles, or just an accumulation of nice items that have increased in value over the years. They don't buy to resell, but their items will obviously be worth more than a few old clothes, tatty knitting patterns & kids toys etc. 

Legitimate private selling could then carry on being 'free to sell'. The 'collector/downsizer' would pay an appropriate selling fee.

Maybe something like this would put an end to all the 'You're a business seller, no I'm not, yes you are, no I'm not!' etc etc...

At the very least, it would create a whole lot of new problems for us to rant about...😄