Business operating as private sellers

[jay2750]

I think this is the one instance where naming and shaming should be allowed. 

At the very minimum it gives them the right to reply.

Sure, there will be the odd stamp collector who is private that those defending this practice always trot out,

but's let face it we all see plenty of stuff from blatant business sellers registered as private individuals.

I sell in low value item categories mostly under £10 including delivery.  I have to compete with these people, competition is fine, unfair competition I'm finding is increasingly not.

If they were named and shamed, then we could all go have a look at their listings, report them, then when Ebay see many multiple reports against a single seller they MAY just take action.

[rainbowtrax]

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@toomanyparrots4 wrote:

Why would you buy something you didn't want?  And as you just said, the buyer can still do it with a private seller.

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No, I didn't. You don't have any rights of return for change of mind from a private seller. You buy clothing, for example, it doesn't fit, you want to return. That's classed as change of mind as opposed to faulty/damaged. Happens loads. But, as @papso22 already said, you have extra legal rights from an illegal trader but it's nigh on impossible to enforce due to their illegal trading. Catch 22.

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@toomanyparrots4 wrote:

What are these unlimited free listings?  I never used to get those.  Just googled it and found nothing but x free listings per month, which applies also to business sellers.

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Business sellers don't get any free listings. The x free listings a month (1000) applies only to private sellers.

Business sellers who subscribe to a shop get a certain number of inclusive listings (amount depends on shop level)  which they pay for as part of their shop subscription. Not free.

Private sellers get 1000 new listings free every month, whether they have a shop or not. If they have a shop, they also get 100 inclusive listings with their shop subscription. They also have unlimited free listing renewals every month as they are not charged a listing fee each month when a listing renews. Take an illegal trader I saw the other day with just over 17,000 current listings. 300-odd were new listings, the rest renewed from previous months. Listing costs for each month - zero. No change of mind returns and no way for a buyer to enforce their legal rights beyond ebay's MBG for SNAD.

For a legally trading business to list the same, the cost would be £437.00 each month. If they're not VAT registered, the listing cost would be £524.40. They also have to accept returns for any reason for 14 days minimum.

Not what I'd call cheaper to be a legally trading business seller. In my example, over a year, the legally trading non-VAT registered business seller lays out £6,292.80 more than the illegal trader for the same number of listings before they've even made a sale. 

Hardly surprising that legal businesses get slightly miffed. This really has been done to death. The posts on it are endless. There are numerous illegal traders who have been doing this for years, many approaching twenty years now, while ebay do absolutely nothing. In the community chat this week, it was stated yet again that reports are actioned which is not true and hasn't been for years. They claim that reports can take around 72 hours to be reviewed and actioned. This is laughable. In truth, the reality is more like 11 years and counting.

[iew-signed-books]

Excellent summation.

And I don't think a single one of my reports has ever been acted on.

[litp*records]

I saw one the other day that had been registered since 2001, sold over 5000 items and had over 3000 for sale at present.  "Private seller"!

That £400 saving you mention, is the difference between paying that month's electric bill or not, for a lot of families.  What they are doing is stealing, plain and simple.   Sadly becoming the norm in this country.  I can't really say that politicians or slebs set a good example these days either!

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[litp*records]

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@zoomingmouse wrote:

Unless it was a glitch, the last couple of private sellers I bought off had their dispatch address/contact details given in the Ebay confirmation email, which is something I had not noticed before.

I checked my own account & my address & phone number were entered too in the dispatch address.

Maybe the reasons you mention are behind this as I can't see any other reason for giving out this information.

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It does not actually matter whether or not the address is provided by ebay after the sale has been made. It would need to be provided if a SNAD claim was made, for example.

The regulations state that, if the seller is a business seller, their registered business address must be clearly displayed to customers before they make the purchase.

[cobwebcottage]

One of the threads on Tuesday identified sellers illegally selling food related items as  private sellers. No list of allergens, ingredients or sellers details.

One had been registered since  2003 and sold 9.3 k to date. The business seller who highlighted it was also selling similar items and had a similar number of sales. It beggars belief how many lost sales they would have had due to these non reg'd, rogue trading, illegal sellers.

So where is the fairness in that Ebay?

[tommystrezures]

In addition to that, no food safety certificate shown, and I also know that if you work from home in food then the local authority have to be notified and your kitchen etc inspected by EHO (Environmental Health).  No mention of that, Natasha's Law etc. I saw that post it absolutely beggared belief... and some of the replies to the negatives too! 

[pg_kicks]

That reply to my question, which he ignored the first time I asked did make laugh, 72 hours, I guess when they said they usually get a reply within 24 hours from the ads team and it took 7 days and me reminding them for an answer I shouldnt be shocked when a report takes over 10 years, the reporting system si clearly broken but hey eBay dont admit to anything, they just ask a team to look into it.

The business sellers are annoying and clearly taking sales away from people, but the ones that really annoy me are the sellers who are selling fakes, eBay shout about their scheme to protect buyers but you just tick 1 box (which ebay tell you about) and it bypasses the scheme. I cant wait for the open day, I have a list of questions for whoever I can ask them too.

[upda8077]

Not all private sellers are buisnes sellers, for instance in my case I spent too much over lockdown on silver coins so now I am getting rid of them (at least most of them), I dont work due to health problems and selling on here has become something to do (as i have a lot of time indoors and never get out), as far as profit there is none or very little (you have to buy bulk to earn money on coins, and I could never afford to do that), so overall I loose on some coins, break even on others, and a few I make a couple of pounds on (and I have to use a 80% off voucher from ebay, otherwise I would loose a lot on every sale).

I still buy coins, and some of the newer ones I list on ebay (using a 80% off FVF voucher), but again sometimes I loose a bit, break even, or a very small profit (overall I am just getting my money back), if I had to do this as a buisness it would not be worth doing as I would loose too much money, as I said, it is just a hobby to keep myself occupied as I am stuck indoors.

I do see a lot of attempted shaming on here, someone will pull someone else up because they are a private seller and this is wrong, as the person pulling them up has no idea what is going on with the seller. I can imagene it puts people off asking questions on here as the self appointed ebay police on here may pull them up, and I dont see any reason why someone (a private seller) has to explain to a stranger why he/she is selling.

And please excuse the spelling mistakes.

[papso22]

If you buy any of those coins with the intention of selling them, then you are a business seller.  Profit, hobby, reasons for doing it, whatever, does not come into it.

[upda8077]

I do not buy to with the intention of re selling them, I buy becase I like the coins. And as I said its only a few of the later coins I have bought I have listed, and that is because they were not what I expected (some coins are better than others).

[purveyor_of_tat]

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@litp*records wrote:

I saw one the other day that had been registered since 2001, sold over 5000 items and had over 3000 for sale at present.  "Private seller"!....

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I'll go you one better....

One posted on a thread on this board the other day, can't recall which one it was, my mind is just all over the shop, something about non-payers, or something. Anyway, registered since 2001 and 87,000 items sold. Even refers to themselves as 'we' in their 'about us' section along with 'our stock'. 

[purveyor_of_tat]

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@cobwebcottage wrote:

One of the threads on Tuesday identified sellers illegally selling food related items as  private sellers. No list of allergens, ingredients or sellers details.....

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And on top of that it's the law to register as a food business with the local authority at least 28 days prior to trading and that the business must have a HACCP in place (risk assessment for food)

In this instance, it's likely the buyers are losing all of their rights as consumers and at major risk of food poisoning as these people clearly do not understand the hazards and risks involved in food production/retailing.

Buyers losing consumer rights = not on. 

Buyers risking being poisoned by food leading to at least sickness (which could be potentially debilitating) = no way, Jose; no way, at all. 

[litp*records]

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@upda8077 wrote:

I do not buy to with the intention of re selling them, I buy becase I like the coins. And as I said its only a few of the later coins I have bought I have listed, and that is because they were not what I expected (some coins are better than others).

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Then you are not who this topic is about.  This is about business sellers who are posing as private sellers.  It's not against all private sellers, that would be absurd.

If you purchased something for what is known as "the joy of ownership" and now you've decided to sell, nothing wrong with that at all.  No one would say you're a business because of that, although if you were to be selling large quantities of items consistently for many years, that would raise some question marks!

Also you must bear in mind that much of the advice given by users here is related to the applicable laws and regulations as well as Ebay's terms of service, rather than opinion. Of course we can have an opinion on whether or not those laws or terms are effective, need to be changed or rewritten, but the laws and rules are what they are.  Either we all follow them, and they are enforced equally, or it becomes a free-for-all where anything goes.

[upda8077]

I agree with you, but if I was to ask a question on here there is a chance someone will check up on my account and accuse me of being a private seller when I should be a buisness seller in there opinion, then I have to explain myself to them (ok, I could just ignore them), but this should not happen in the first place.

As I previously said, it can put people in my position off asking questions on here when we read those types of replies.

I have seen private sellers post a question on here and someone else will check up on what they are selling and decide they should be a buisness account  and pull them up on it, and in some cases not even answer the question, this is what needs to stop.  As far as I am concerned if you cannot help with the question then that person should not reply at all (as this is a place to get help with buying and selling only).

Keep in mind they do not know why you are selling, all they see is that you have "stock" (in there opinion) and your a private seller, this is all the reason they seem to need to pull the person up that asks a question, I think this is wrong and should not be allowed on here.

I am not even too sure why they bother to check up on what you are selling in the first place, as it has nothing to do with the question you may ask on here.

And I agree with you a lot of the time its about the rules a regulations, but it is not upto another person on here to point them out to someone unless they ask about them, for instance  if the question is about Postage then help them out (but only with the postage question).

As the person who started this thread  wanted to start naming and shaming people on here I had to strongly disagree and say why.

[toomanyparrots4]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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@toomanyparrots4 wrote:

I can't understand your legalese.  The point is, if a buyer buys from a "private" seller they don't lose any important rights rather than buying from a "business" seller.  

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They lose their legal right to a remorse (i.e. change of mind) return.

I've never felt the need to do that, why would I have bought it if I didn't wan tit?  I return if something is not as described.

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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Also, private sellers are not required to ensure durable items they sell are of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose nor last a reasonable length of time - the item only has to be "as described". If a consumer has a problem with a purchase from a business they have 6 years (5 years in Scotland) to enforce their consumer rights which they don't have when purchasing from a private seller.

That involves a length court case, which would ework no matter what they labelled themsevles as on Ebay.  The court will look straight through that.

[toomanyparrots4]

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@iew-signed-books wrote:

Not a meaningless label, I'm afraid, but the law (again).

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Not what people used to say on here.  They said HMRC and all the other government departments couldn't give a rat's arss what you tell Ebay you are, you're a business if they can see you're selling loads of stuff.

Anyway, are you actually telling me you understand those laws?  The one quoted earlier was 50 pages of meaningless babble which might aswell have been Greek.  No sane person understands laws that complicated.  Anything more than "don't go faster than what it says on the signpost" and I can't understand it.  And no I'm not thick, I have a degree in physics and an IQ of 145.  I just only speak one language, English, not legalese.

[iew-signed-books]

I studied many languages and have lived abroad.

[papso22]

It's lucky for you then that many people do understand the law and have taken the time to explain it in layman's terms on these forums.  Unfortunately that still seems too complicated for some, even those with degrees and high IQs.

You can also look at the Which website, and those of other consumer organisations, where you will find the same 'dumbed down' information. 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

(as this is a place to get help with buying and selling only) - WRONG this is a DISCUSSION board and that is what is happening, we are discussing whether e bay should do more about illegal sellers.  I am a private seller and i sell my families cast offs/tat as a hobby for me(retired) and because they do not have the time or inclination.  I also do car boots during the summer.  I often have new stuff because there are 10 adults and 1 child and a couple of the females are compulsive buyers and seem to have a thing about not returning items.  All the proceeds go to the childs savings account.  Some people may class is as a business i do not but i certainly understand what the business people on here are saying.  Maybe you should just stay off the discussion board if you get upset so easily by percieved critisicsm

[toomanyparrots4]

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@zoomingmouse wrote:

Unless it was a glitch, the last couple of private sellers I bought off had their dispatch address/contact details given in the Ebay confirmation email, which is something I had not noticed before.

I checked my own account & my address & phone number were entered too in the dispatch address.

Maybe the reasons you mention are behind this as I can't see any other reason for giving out this information.

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If you buy from me, my address is on the postage label anyway.

This all goes against Ebay's ethos of wanting all contact through them.  It means people can contact me directly by phone and Ebay gets no fees!  I have often phoned a business to get cheaper prices.