Tech support says :messages to upgrade from a private to business account have been sent by mistake

[notstopbuying]

I had a message yesterday on my private selling account and an email, to say that I needed to upgrade from a private seller to a business account, I called eBay this morning to ask about various things with regards to upgrading to a business account and the tech support person said....No need to, the emails have all been sent out by mistake.

I asked will I receive an email to confirm it was a mistake, they said no, but they are currently working on the issue.

The tech support person did say, if I received a 2nd email to say I needed to upgrade to a business account, then it would be best to call back and confirm if I do need to upgrade, but the 1st email as been sent out to many, many private sellers and they have no need to upgrade to a business account.

[4_bathrooms]

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@cspurchasing wrote:

The second (who was clearly more knowledge about the changes) said that it was solely eBay's decision, and if you are a business seller using eBay's platform, with a business account, they no longer make any distinction between business / private sales for that business / person, hence all accounts linked to that business / person must be business accounts on their platform. Make of that what you will.

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Interesting. Normally I'd suggest treating anything an eBay CS rep said as likely to be a ruse to get you off the phone; especially if they were incapable of actually helping with your enquiry. However, there might be something to this.

Under the OECD requirements eBay are obliged to obtain a unique tax identification number when a seller reaches one or both of the two thresholds. It never made any sense to me why they were asking for NINOs from sole traders as such sellers would have a UTR they would almost certainly be happier to provide. Also, I believed a UTR would be far more useful to HMRC as such a seller would be recording their (business's) eBay sales via their (UTR-linked) self-assessment.

I now think there might be two screws being turned against eBay; one by the EU Commission (GPSRs) the other by HMRC. If I'm correct the reason both screws are being turned is eBay's prior failure to properly police private selling accounts. It would also explain eBay's recent sledgehammer tactics against private sellers which - in hindsight - may even have started with the abolition of many private seller's regular FVF offers. There will likely be lots of genuine private sellers who will get caught up in this so I sincerely hope eBay's appeals process is fit for purpose. The thing is I'm not even sure how a genuine private seller is supposed to prove they're not trading if - for example - they are genuinely selling off a private collection or the contents of their recently deceased relatives' king-size wardrobe. 

[1956glyn]

Well we can show Probate (or a few) if necessary.  I get what you are saying though.

We are reluctant to give Ebay especially anymore personal information.

[myriad*seller]

I think it is going to be like the VAT distaster where eBay insist that to stop charging VAT on eBay they have to provide proof from HMRC that they are no longer VAT registered. HMRC do not, and will not provide this proof. Leaving deregistered, former VAT registered sellers, in limbo.

I suspect eBay will tell private sellers that they have to provide proof from HMRC that they do not need to register as a business. And of course, HMRC won't provide this proof, so private sellers will be left in limbo....

They will put the onus on the seller to prove they are not a business, rather than the onus being on eBay to prove they are. 

[theelench]

"It never made any sense to me why they were for NINOs from sole traders as such sellers would have a UTR they would almost certainly be happier to provide."

I asked for clarification of exactly this when it became apparent on the boards that for private sellers handing-over a NINO was the only option.  Yes, I would be happier to give ebay my UTR, from Self-Employment days,  as HMRC can look back 10(?) years, it's still valid.

 And not just for sole traders and the self-employed, but also for anyone filing Self-Assessment Returns and possibly anyone having any other dealings with HMRC(?)

About the best answer anyone here could give was "It makes it simpler for ebay".

I think ebay is digging itself a deeper hole on this.  Denying many the chance to supply a UTR just because it's easier for ebay(?).   Ordering correctly registered private sellers to re-register incorrectly as businesses.  Where does that leave the distinction between business and private sellers ?  When some businesses are paying private seller fees, getting the perks and getting away with it, while some private sellers will be paying business fees and being denied perks they should be entitled to.

[4_bathrooms]

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@theelench wrote:

I asked for clarification of exactly this when it became apparent on the boards that for private sellers handing-over a NINO was the only option.  Yes, I would be happier to give ebay my UTR, from Self-Employment days,  as HMRC can look back 10(?) years, it's still valid.

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I think I've found the answer; eBay are simply doing what the Government told them to do:

"For individual sellers

You’ll need their:

• full name
• main address
• date of birth
• tax identification number (National Insurance number if they live in the UK)
• You also need to know the country which issued their tax identification number.

For entity sellers (such as companies)

You’ll need their:

• legal business name
• main business address
• tax identification number (company registration number for a UK company)" 

Note an ordinary partnership is neither an individual nor a legal entity but they are an entity hence the requirement for a UTR from ordinary partnerships.

Also, I'm pretty sure the whole point of the reporting rules is to report sales against tax declared within the same (calendar) year. Your UTR might still be valid but I'm guessing you're not planning on declaring your (private) eBay sales in a self-assessment. The vast majority of private sellers are not going to have a UTR as their main household income will be from PAYE employment and/or benefits. In fact, allowing private sellers to supply a UTR would only be seen by those trading via a private account as something that legitimises their activity. 

[myriad*seller]

The business registration form accepts NI and UTR 

eBay could simply insist that all business sellers who are made to upgrade provide either a company number or UTR to ensure they are registered with HMRC

NI just means that HMRC can link them to their PAYE or benefit income 

[bickejad]

Weirdly I recieved a banner on my app this evening (first I've ever seen it) and I've not recieved any email or message from eBay. I'm a private seller and also don't understand why I'm being asked to upgrade. However it's not appearing logging into the web portal, so I'll wait and see if the FVF promo gets applied as normal midnight Thursday. 
I literally sell 2/3 items MAX a month, sometimes nothing for months on end and I just keep relisting items when the FVF promotion is applied. If I sell luxury goods they are actually declared under my capital gains if necessary but that's because they are items of high value and increase in value year on year even second hand (which is exactly what capital gains is there for). Those are really few and far between (1 a year/wvery 2 years tops). I have a full time job and am just listing personal items. 
Will contact eBay in the morning but very confused as to why this would apply to me!

[sml192]

It might be to do with the fact that most of your items are listed as 'New'. 

[bypyhgyk]

eBay will pass on data to HMRC automatically if you're selling 30 or more items a year OR have total earnings over the equivalent of £1,770, but even though the data is being shared, it doesn't mean that you will owe tax if you're a private seller.

But ebay did choose to request almost every seler with lot of sales or with sales over certain amount- to change to a business account.

Myself i made 70 sales in last 12 months. Sales are approx 4000£  in total but i still was requested to change to a business.  All items i sold were my personal  ones- 90% used condition items- mostly in price  5-20£ range.

Happily I did empty my unnecessary items list - so i am left with approx one box of items i do not need.

Someone who is buyng for resale- will have racks or whole storage unit of goodies.

[bickejad]

That's because they are accurately listed, they are mine or my partners items that have been stored and unworn with tags still attached remaining as purchased, that we have decided to sell on instead of keep and I have listed as so. I'm not sure that would constitute a business account when some of the items I initially uploaded  2+ years ago and clearly don't sell loads (just get refreshed and refreshed). But your point is noted.

[bickejad]

Yes thanks for your reply , I'm aware of the tax reporting, which is totally fine as I mentioned anything with why significant value that  I have sold on after use that have increased in value has been declared for several years through my tax return and nothing else is at profit so I'm not worried about that. 
my sales are nominal as I mentioned apart from one of significant value which was less than I paid for the item anyway. And my listings are simply relists month on month of the same item that's remained unsold (albeit that has ceased now due to the selling fees being dropped for clothing in the UK) so my realists are now only ever for shoes or bags which are excluded. 

[2211merez]

I'm not a business.

[2211merez]

I sell old stuff or stuff  that I  don't want that I've bought. I'm definitely not a business and I have no intention of running a business . I don't sell all the time. I'm simply selling things I no longer want.  I will not sell on ebay anymore if this is the case.

[mre4you-uk]

Nice to meet you. I see that eBay did punish you the same way like all of us?

Sad to hear that 😞 Hope that after some months/ or years eBay will be ready for private sellers again.

[recorder-bard]

I saw the red banner on my app this morning and I'm just a private seller, mostly decluttering following a move and adult children moving on.  I don't want to be a business but the banner implies I have to, but I can't see why. Surely that will entail costs (after the promotion ends)  and more work/admin? It felt like being forced into doing/being something i dont want to be. I have 3 or 4 things listed and probably sold a couple of things per month before during the year before i moved.    I just clicked on 'upgrade to business account' and it said the deadline to upgrade was by 4th September,  which has passed.  The banner wasn't there yesterday when I listed something. I hope it is a mistake.  I didn't get an email BTW, just the huge and alarming banner.

[tigger462]

I too have had the banner appear this morning.

I'm not a business. I've sold 13 items in 90 days. Apparently average of 42 sales a year. Mostly my old clothes and house stuff. If I'm a business then I should've closed years ago 

Seems they offered free clothes selling due to Vinted etc, so we did, and now they're deciding we've listed too many so clearly a business. Couldn't possibly be someone who buys too much stuff... 😆

I will not be registering for a business account. I am not and have no plans to be a business nor reseller. 

22 years on ebay and the journey is over lol 

[kempseykate]

It seems even business sellers, who have been registered as a business for years, have the banner this morning! Seems to be a classic case of ebay not knowing what the heck they are doing.

[objects-of-intrigue]

 So I hadn't noticed this before today. Big red banner. It said register before 4th. It's the 5th. Clicked Home again and the banner said register before the 9th. I do have nearly 500 items for sale, mostly books but my actual sales are pitifully small and getting smaller by the month in the current climate. Essentially my only income at the moment and I don't claim benefits before anyone asks (living off savings). I've never got near breaching the 1000 sales as most are buy rather than auction.  Is this warning based on items for sale or actual sales and do I really need to do this? Is this just a marketing ploy?

[papso22]

The question is whether you buy to sell, or are just selling off your own personal possessions.

The rest is irrelevant to the type of account you need.

[the_book_seekers]

 I've never got near breaching the 1000 sales as most are buy rather than auction.  Is this warning based on items for sale or actual sales and do I really need to do this? Is this just a marketing ploy?

Not a marketing ploy. ebay has started to move against what it now considers to businesses registered on private accounts. Personally I think it is because of new regulations from HMRC/OECD and GPSR with ebay having to get seller's trading in line with what it should be under their own rules and consumer legislation. ebay may be trying to avoid sanctions from regulators. 

As for having to upgrade that will be your choice. But ebay will start imposing sanctions on those who fail to do so by the 9th. There is apparently a right of appeal but nobody seems to think many if any will be successful.

From how you've phrased your post you're not selling personal items. If between Jan 24 and Jan 25 you will have sold 30 items or in excess of (roughly) £1700 of goods ebay will pass your selling data to HMRC. What HMRC will do is not known at present - if you read through these boards there have been various guesses. The GPSR has to do with businesses selling into the EU/NI and involves a mountain of work. Private sellers are not effected but the EU will not take kindly to business sellers selling on private accounts and getting round their new regs.