Private Sellers continuing to operate as businesses

[reynardnoirrailwayana2015]

Hi all, 

I know there was another thread on this topic closed recently, but as a business seller doing things properly, I am increasingly being undercut by private sellers who are clearly businesses but have not registered as such. One seller I have seen in the same category we mostly operate in has had over 7,000 sales and has sold over 300 items in the last 12 months, and has over 400 items listed. This clearly is not someone who is operating as a business but is registered as a private seller. There are of course endless similar examples of this. 

eBay could easily police this but clearly opts not to, but should we as business sellers be able to report private accounts that are acting as businesses. Or are we all just hoping HMRC take action on these sellers (HMRC being efficient and fast moving seems unlikely).

What action should eBay be taking to protect and encourage business sellers, who seem to be at a massive disadvantage...

[*devils.advocate*]

My only beef with it is that it should be optional, not mandatory.

Following the link kempseykate provided

Opt in/opt out and eligibility

Yes, you can opt out of Simple Delivery when you’re creating the listing.

[lupo-store]

eBay Simple Delivery provides a prepaid and tracked label that covers the item, so sellers don't need to choose a delivery service when listing an item.
eBay postage rates vary depending on the courier service selected. Here are some examples of eBay delivery costs:
Parcel2go: The cheapest option, with prices starting at £1.99
EVRi: Drop off costs £2.94 for 0–1 kg and £6.12 for 5–10 kg
EVRi Drop off next day: Costs £3.67 for 0–1 kg and £7.14 for 5–10 kg
EVRi Collection: Costs £3.97 for 0–1 kg and £7.32 for 5–10 kg
Sellers can set their own postage options on the Selling page. They can also consider the following when setting postage rates:
What other sellers charge for similar items
The size and weight of the item, including packaging
Whether they're offering international shipping
Sellers can also build the postage price into the item's price, set a fixed charge for all buyers, or set up postage rate tables.

[555njp]

So am I missing something? Seems like a good idea to me.

Also, people shouldn’t be selling online if they can’t post it within 3 days. Other sites don’t allow that. With EVRI and RM there are collect from home options for those that can’t get to a collection point too.

On the face of it at least, it sounds (unusually for eBay) ok, especially as optional.

[555njp]

Ah, ok. My daughter sells on Vinted and this is similar.

Having the buyer choose can be a problem because Vinted offer a wide variety of postage options. My daughter hates it when a Vinted buyer opts for RM as she struggles to get to Post Office.
Fortunately for her, on Vinted most buyers go for In post lockers or EVRI as they are cheapest and the buyer is paying.

So, if eBay’s version lets the seller choose to only offer certain options, that would be better. 

[krafty-kreations]

Also, people shouldn’t be selling online if they can’t post it within 3 days.

Why not?

If someone wants to sell an old coat but cannot get to a post office for four days and the buyer is happy to wait, I don't see the problem. 

[lupo-store]

It is a good idea if you are a real private seller.  If you are a business masquerading as a private seller eBay are activating 3 levers:

1. This shipping solution (cheapest postage price will go up to at least £2 and cut margins for business on private accounts for fast moving sub £10 market - Chinese seller market)

2. Private sellers will only get paid after delivery confirmation (or after 14 days).  Will be fine for real private sellers but will screw businesses masquerading on private accounts' cash flow. 

3. There will be a fee for buyers purchasing from a private account.  Not sure how much yet.

All 3 of these will hopefully redress the balance.

[leadhills_scot]

I don't buy on ebay and closed my last private account down in April and this account will become dormant mid December.

However, I can see this causing no end of problems for the genuine private seller.  Prefer not to buy from anywhere that uses evri. In my location they only deliver/collect 3 times a week and the main hub loses plenty of parcels.

[southeast-trailers]

This does nothing for the private seller refusing to accept Ebay's payment methods and arranging almost all says off site!! 

[555njp]

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@krafty-kreations wrote:

Also, people shouldn’t be selling online if they can’t post it within 3 days.

Why not?

If someone wants to sell an old coat but cannot get to a post office for four days and the buyer is happy to wait, I don't see the problem. 

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If the buyer is willing then yes of course, but most buyers are very impatient and don’t want to wait.
eBay are rightly or wrongly fighting Amazon. Most younger people (under 40) have ‘Prime’ these days and with that small monthly fee comes free next day shipping. 
Those buyers won’t even look at other sites for goods due to that ‘free next day’ carrot.

My old office is a good example. 10 years ago everyone (40+ people) of all ages had an eBay account. Most bought on it and a few including myself also sold stuff.

Fast forward to today and I’m the only one still selling. Younger staff (in their 20s and early 30s) won’t even consider looking on eBay if it’s available on Amazon, Vinted, DPOP or Facebook and the rest of the older guys simply don’t use eBay.

The worlds moved on…..and yes, not necessarily in the right direction 🫤

[kempseykate]

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@*devils.advocate* wrote:

My only beef with it is that it should be optional, not mandatory.

Following the link kempseykate provided

Opt in/opt out and eligibility

Yes, you can opt out of Simple Delivery when you’re creating the listing.

---

That is currently. According to the CEO it will be mandatory for private sellers early next year.
If you can opt out of it it's obviously not an issue.

[kempseykate]

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@555njp wrote:

So am I missing something? Seems like a good idea to me.

Also, people shouldn’t be selling online if they can’t post it within 3 days. Other sites don’t allow that. With EVRI and RM there are collect from home options for those that can’t get to a collection point too.

On the face of it at least, it sounds (unusually for eBay) ok, especially as optional.

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1) It won't be optional from earl next year.

2) I never offer an express option because ebay make you refund that full postage cost if an item is returned.

3)I'm not a business. I'm a private seller with mobility issues. I have a 4/5 day despatch time partly because of the EDDs, and because if my OH doesn't have the car, is away, or can't drive for a few days I have leeway. The collection options are not good. 

4) It's my life (as Billt Joel said!). I do what suits me. If buyers don't want to buy from me because they want it delivered within the house, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that.

[triple512]

Fair enough, I understand your points.

Legally under DSRs (online selling laws) you only have to refund the cheaper postage option.

Upgrades selected by the buyer are not refundable.

But, this is eBay so may be different on private accounts.

Fingers crossed this isn’t forced on people then 🤞

[triple512]

…oops wrong account, reply was from 555njp 😂

[jacobseye]

A me too here. I can't compete with the 'private' sellers who are obviously businesses. I sell something niche and the margin is 10% for all of us and with private sellers not paying fees I'm losing a lot of business.

One of my competitors even has an eBay shop and is registered as a private seller!

[kempseykate]

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@triple512 wrote:

Fair enough, I understand your points.

Legally under DSRs (online selling laws) you only have to refund the cheaper postage option.

Upgrades selected by the buyer are not refundable.

But, this is eBay so may be different on private accounts.

Legally, yes. But as you say this is ebay, and if a buyer returns an item that they opted to have sent express delivery, the seller (private or business) has to refund the full amount paid for postage.

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@triple512 wrote:

Fingers crossed this isn’t forced on people then 🤞

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The CEO has said it will be mandatory for private sellers early in Q1 next year.

[pcmp_caravan_hire]

Slightly on the topic, i have a business account which i have had for over 20 years (paying ebay 1000's in fees), i also had this private account which i sold a few of my own family items on because i have a business account ebay have told me this account to has to be business because i have sold to many items, approx 1400 in 10 years on it , a few more higher value items recently because of the no fees deal, after speaking to them on the phone they tell me its easy to look in to people with business accounts and link any private accounts, where as it takes a lot more effort to look into people with just private accounts, i looked and within 5 minutes i could find at least 20 which in my opion are not private accounts, as others have said with no fees this effects people with business accounts as they can sell the item a lot cheaper, i feel ebay have just done it to compete with the likes of Facebook etc, i am sure theres not a lot that can be done about it!!!! just wanted to rant somewhere

[kempseykate]

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@pcmp_caravan_hire wrote:

... after speaking to them on the phone they tell me its easy to look in to people with business accounts and link any private accounts, where as it takes a lot more effort to look into people with just private accounts, i looked and within 5 minutes i could find at least 20 which in my opion are not private accounts ...

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I agree with you. Basically ebay are either lazy, dim or incompetent! There are many, many accounts that are so obviously business sellers trading as private sellers. They often put stuff like, 'This is a small, family run business', or 'New stock arriving daily' on their listings or 'about me' page - yet, even when they are reported, ebay can't see they are a business.
I have reported a 'private' seller who sells (illegal) photocopied craft patterns (so making to sell). She has sold just under 1,000 identical items from one listing, yet ebay seem to think that's OK.

So much easier for them to just link accounts of business sellers and make them upgrade their private account. 😞

[british-ceramics-and-paintings]

Ebay's efforts to deal with this issue have been absolutely shambolic, the ironic thing is they will suffer more than anybody from the way they are handling it.

[vintique*violet]

eBay need to re-think about saying you have to now have your private account registered as a business... it appears to me that they want everyone to register as a business just to garner fees. Where does it state that you have to have a business account because you have sold over 1400 items in 10years? 

Goodness when we move, and clear out things not going with...it will probably be more than 30 items in a few months let alone a year... Does that make me a business - No!

So by what they have told you,  then we are all  a " business" and with that comes   further " legal"  implications and responsibilities as a business " owner"... Ones which many could not or do not wish to fulfil. 

Ebay cannot force you to be a " business" when you are not... what on earth is going on with this platform.

We are not their employees! 

[vintique*violet]

We apparently all have a " shop" display frontage... I am private and have a shop button which links to the listings,  but I am not a shop nor did I ask to have a shop and never noticed until a kind fellow on here pointed it out to me... I think it is just eBays new " things" like the search feed , and now holding of funds until delivery etc..