Buyer resold my item, and wants to return because their seller claims it’s faulty

[climbaroo]

Hi there, I sold my first item on eBay and was quite inexperienced.

I ended up selling it to a reseller, who resold it to another person. Now the reseller’s (my buyer) buyer claimed that the item is faulty, so my buyer wants to return. I asked for the serial number to confirm that the buyer didn’t swap it out with another device. And also pictures showing the fault, I did not receive any. Unfortunately I also didn’t keep any evidence that it is working fine, although I tested it before sending.

What should I do, should I accept the return or waiting for them to provide more evidence? Do resellers violate eBay policies? When they resell, the seller has no visibility of the end buyer, which adds risks to the transaction 

[tressygirl]

@4_bathrooms   wrote:

. Anyway; after contacting eBay's CS and pointing the relevant part of their own MBG policy out to them they agreed the buyer had forfeited their MBG protection by forwarding the item to another address and closed the case without requiring me to refund the buyer.  

Now,  this is what I have always thought !

If it's written in black and white in the MBG ,  then surely as they say....  case on this closed!  🤔 

[climbaroo]

Thank you so much! Really appreciate all the help under this thread 🙂

[game_raid]

In the OP's case the item has been forwarded anywhere, The buyer has took delivery, listed it and resold it either on eBay, facebook or another marketplace, this is the part we do not know.

Looking at previous sold items of the Oculus and what they sold for I don't it even think it was sold on here.

The buyer is free to do what they want with the item and have took advantage of the MBG because of the 30 day rule.

[tressygirl]

It's certainly been a bumpy ride @climbaroo   sorry for all the confusion.  🤔

[climbaroo]

The buyer has sold on eBay, I found it on his selling history that he sold the exact same item just after he received from me.

[tressygirl]

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@game_raid wrote:

In the OP's case the item has been forwarded anywhere, The buyer has took delivery, listed it and resold it either on eBay, facebook or another marketplace, this is the part we do not know.

Looking at previous sold items of the Oculus and what they sold for I don't it even think it was sold on here.

The buyer is free to do what they want with the item and have took advantage of the MBG because of the 30 day rule.

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Crumbs I wish it was wine o ' clock !!!  😊

@game_raid 

[game_raid]

It could be they bought, decided it wasn't for them so sold it on, its developed a fault so its being returned, they have realised they can still return back to you so opted to do so, I think this is how eBay will see it and are tied to their own policy.

I guess it depends on if they wish to refund you as goodwill gesture but considering the value I really can't see it unless a serious policy has been broken, as stupid as it sounds the buyer hasn't done anything wrong.

Morally they have but we can't speak for them.

[climbaroo]

The buyer has hundreds of records, lots of buying and selling of the same item. I reckon it’s easy to see this is a reseller, but not sure if eBay cares

[4_bathrooms]

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@climbaroo wrote:

Thanks, what would you think my best option is? Should I accept the return, then dispute the eligibility of MBG, and report the ‘abusive buyer’. Or should I not accept the return and ask eBay to step in?

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INAD returns are automatically accepted; sellers have no way of declining them. Once an INAD case has been opened the clock is ticking - if you haven't issued a return label or convinced eBay to close the case by the third day the buyer can ask eBay to step in and they will be refunded at your expense.

You need to contact eBay's customer services by live chat (not by telephone), point out the buyer sold the item and therefore forwarded it to another address after delivery. You then need to copy and paste the link I provided earlier pointing out the item was sent to another address after original delivery and therefore the buyer has lost their Money Back Guarantee protection. You really will have to point out what is written in black and white to the CS rep.

If they don't close the case on that basis you will have to issue a return label but you will only be responsible for issuing a return label that gets the item from the address you delivered it to back to yourself. If your buyer no longer has the item and doesn't use the return label in time the case will automatically close in your favour. I would still advise contacting eBay's CS by live chat first and pointing out their own policy to them - as mentioned I usually find the CS reps do follow eBay's written policy when it is clearly pointed out to them.

[tressygirl]

Good advice from @4_bathrooms ,   but on contacting eBay Customer Services   I strongly recommend contacting them Only very first thing in the morning,  when the lines first open at 8 a.m. on weekdays,  as there's more chance of Dublin answering.

Here's the link to CS again,  save you time scrolling back to find it.

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

@climbaroo 

[dch2112011]

Another point to make is that if the damage / fault occured after the OP's buyer sold it  - How can the OP be responsible for any handling or packing between the buyer and the third party ?   Once the buyer sold it on - it is outside of any control the OP may have - worth the discussion with ebay ?

[tressygirl]

Hi again @climbaroo   I've asked our Community Manager about this conundrum they kindly answered,  and this is the reply below.  As you can see it still needs further clarification CS guys being asked to clarify this.....  not as clear cut as at first seems.

The contract would be between you and the original buyer. You would have nothing to do with the second transaction. 

If the person who resold it sold it on eBay, the eMBG might cover that transaction but they would need to get it get back to them and not to you. 

I've been reading through the eMBG policy and I can't see anywhere that says the first transaction is voided if they resell the item. There is the possibility that if you buyer gets it back within the 30 days from the first transaction date, they could then possibly open a return to you.... 

Ive asked one of the CS guys to just to confirm. Ill let you know what they say. 

[dch2112011]

Yep it's always going to be open to the interpretation of CS -  and how convincing the OP presents their case on the phone and whether CS have a button they can press to accomadate the desired result !

I feel that CS will have to agree but maybe with the only possible action allowed being  a courtesy refund !

Such is the rigidity of the  options open to the CS agent - whether they agree or not - the result is always down to which button ebay allow them to press - life in ebay world !

[myriad*seller]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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@myriad*seller wrote:

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eBay don't care where the returned item is posted from. They only care that delivery to seller is shown by the tracking. 

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That isn't correct. In an INAD case the seller is only responsible for issuing a return label that is valid for getting the item returned from the address they originally arranged delivery to. The seller is not responsible for arranging a return from any other address.  

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The seller isn't being asked to arrange return from any other address. OP is being asked to provide a return label (or will be when a case is opened). 

There is nothing to stop OPs buyer (the reseller) sending that return label to the other buyer - eBay will not know *who* returned the item, and they won't have any evidence that OPs return label was sent to the resellers buyer by the reseller. 

A buyer of an item they wish to return **could** go on holiday to another part of the UK with the package to return, and can post it back to their seller from anywhere in the UK. There is nothing that states the person returning an item has to do it from their home address or most local shop. They can post it back from anywhere in the UK., their auntie can post it, their gran and her dog can post it! There is no "posting from" or "posted by" stipulation! 

eBay do NOT care where the item is returned from and there is nothing to stop OPs buyer (the reseller) emailing the label to their buyer to return the item from there.

eBay won't care where it was posted from, only that is was posted back to OP. 

It shouldn't happen, but there is nothing to stop this happening so the reseller gets a refund to give to their buyer if they open a case within 30 days of the original date of delivery. 

The "sending to a third party" stipulation of the T&Cs relates to the original transaction, it doesn't pertain to reselling which is a completely different transaction. 

[dave@ebay]

Hi @climbaroo 

the eMBG is between you and the person who bought it from you. If they sold it on you are not responsible for that transaction. They would have to have it returned to them before opening a return with you. 

Generally speaking, they are not covered with you because they sold the item on, so they must have received it in working order. If it's been sold on through eBay the cases team will be able to see the different transactions so they can see that your buyer sold it to somebody else. @4_bathrooms is correct, this voids the eMBG with you. 

I cant see the details but if the reseller has messaged you to say their buyer is claiming the item is faulty it strengthens your case to not accept the return, you can point this out to the cases team if the return is open. 

I think it was posted here already but you can point the reseller to the exclusions section here to show them that your transaction is no longer covered and you are not liable for the item anymore. 

Thanks,

Dave

[climbaroo]

Thank you Dave, I accepted the return to avoid the situation that others have mentioned, where I do not accept return and the buyer force a return to be accepted.

What should I do now? Should I wait until I receive the item back, then raise a case with eBay about the buyer selling the item on?

[crg_music]

As far as ebay is concerned your contract is with your customer. I dont really know why the buyer would even tell you they had resold it as it has certainly complicated it in your mind but yeah regardless of how iffy it is you'll probably have to take the return or lose a case.

[4_bathrooms]

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@myriad*seller wrote:

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There is nothing to stop OPs buyer (the reseller) sending that return label to the other buyer

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Other than when the seller purchases the return label (it's an INAD case) they will obviously be entering the address the item was delivered to as the collection address. The carrier is simply not going to collect from an address other than the one they were given when the label was purchased.

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@myriad*seller wrote:

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A buyer of an item they wish to return **could** go on holiday to another part of the UK with the package to return, and can post it back to their seller from anywhere in the UK. There is nothing that states the person returning an item has to do it from their home address or most local shop. They can post it back from anywhere in the UK., their auntie can post it, their gran and her dog can post it! There is no "posting from" or "posted by" stipulation! 

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That only applies to remorse returns where the buyer is responsible for purchasing the return label; remorse returns do not fall under the remit of the MBG. Any time a seller is responsible for the return of an item they are only responsible for arranging collection from the address the item was delivered to. For example; if eBay auto-generates a return shipping label the collection address will be the original delivery address. Most private sellers are probably unaware how to turn off eBay issuing return labels automatically but it can be done from this page by disabling "Return automations" and enabling the "RMA number" option.

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@myriad*seller wrote:

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The "sending to a third party" stipulation of the T&Cs relates to the original transaction, it doesn't pertain to reselling which is a completely different transaction. 

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The sending to another address after original delivery stipulation applies however the item was forwarded. That is, unless it was forwarded under an eBay programme such as GSP or an Authenticity Guarantee programme during the original transaction. As the OP's buyer sold and shipped the item after receipt it was "sent to another address after original delivery" therefore the OP's buyer lost their MBG protection.

[dch2112011]

The angle you are promoting assumes that the OP will issue a 'collect from address' label when in reality unless the item is large and bulky it would be more likely to be a 'postage label' which can be attached to the return package and dropped off at any receiving centre which means that it could be forwarded to another person in another area to attach and drop off without the OP or ebay knowing the reason or the story behind it.

Surely this means that the only possible way of guessing where it was 'posted' would be from the initial scan of the label which would record the first handling centre  but this is not irrevocable proof - for all that anyone is aware the buyer happened to be  in that area and decided to drop the package off having travelled there in the early hours - say to visit relatives

The OP has on poor advice accepted the return and therefore a generated return label has been issued which adds a little more complications to this 'out of the box' issue

The response from dave@ebay  is dependant on an internal interpretation by ebay of  the MBG policy  regarding : The item was sent to another address after original delivery, Not covered: The buyer used third-party freight forwarding or mail redirection.

This on the face of it does not cover this situation and  ebay would need to have a liberal interpretation of it to cover this situation - Which ebay can and do show from time to time which as Dave@ebay has confirmed will be the solution as it is the only possibility under the mbg. 

However one line that Dave@ebay wrote leaves this solution in doubt : 

'They would have to have it returned to them before opening a return with you.'

The doubt being whether ebay would only accept a claim by the buyer that it had been returned to them if it was backed up with a completed return from their buyer within ebay before a return was opened on the OP.

The only other solution is if ebay found it was a false abusive return and closed it in favour of the seller, probably with a courtesy refund to the buyer !

[4_bathrooms]

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dave@ebay wrote:

I cant see the details but if the reseller has messaged you to say their buyer is claiming the item is faulty it strengthens your case to not accept the return, you can point this out to the cases team if the return is open. 

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Hi Dave,

Thank you clarifying but sellers have no choice about accepting INAD returns; they are accepted automatically. The only way a seller has of defending a case like this is by contacting customer services who generally don't have a clue about eBay's own policies. Anyone employed as a CS representative should ideally be able to recite the MBG from memory or at the very least be able to demonstrate a thorough understanding of it. @climbaroo has already contacted customer services as per their earlier post but were given incorrect advice even after they had informed the rep about the item being resold by their buyer via eBay. I believe had @climbaroo explained why their buyer had lost their MBG protection and provided a link to the relevant section of the MBG the rep would have closed the case without @climbaroo being required to provide a return label nor a refund. However, I feel a CS rep should be far more familiar with eBay's MBG policy than what would be expected of a casual private seller to be.