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gone-fishing10
Community Member
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎06-12-2009

Sale of Goods Act 1979

I thought that I would share the following  template of letter relating to returning faulty goods where the seller asks you to pay for the return postage:

 

Dear (company name) Reference:  Contract number (E Bay Item No)

 

I have discovered that the (item) has the following problems:

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 makes it an implied term of the contract that goods be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.  Any returns policy that says I have to cover the cost of returning items must only relate to the situation where I change my mind about the item ordered and not where there is a problem with the item.  I should not lose out financially as a result of your breach of contract and accordingly all costs of returning the item(s) should be met by you.

 

I also require you to confirm whether you will arrange for the (item) to be collected or will reimburse me for the cost of returning it.

 

Yousrs faithfully.

 

(your name here)

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froyoyabby
Community Member
Posts: 264
Registered: ‎17-10-2012

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to gone-fishing10

Please be aware the limitation of Act 1979


PRIVATE SALES

When you buy goods from a private individual, you don't have the same rights as when buying from a trader. The legal principle of caveat emptor, or 'buyer beware', operates. You have no right to expect that goods are of satisfactory quality or fit for their purpose but there is a requirement that they should be as described. You should check goods thoroughly before you buy them.

 

SECOND HAND GOODS

You have the same rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) when you buy second-hand goods as you do when you buy new. However, your expectations relating to satisfactory quality ought to be realistic when buying second-hand goods.

 

SALE GOODS

You have the same rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) when you buy sale goods as you do when you buy them at full price. However, if the goods were reduced in price because of a fault that was either brought to your attention at the time, or if you examined the goods and the defect would have been obvious to you, you would not be able to claim a refund later for that particular fault.

 

AUCTIONS

You do not always have the same rights when you buy at auction as you would have if you bought from a retailer.

Some goods sold at auction can are excluded from the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) (subject to a reasonableness test) in relation to satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and description. Notices can be displayed removing these rights, any exclusions must be subject to a reasonableness test. This is covered by the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.

The rights of consumers when buying new goods cannot be excluded in any auction. The rights of consumers when buying second-hand goods can (subject to a reasonableness test) be excluded or restricted. However, they can only be excluded or restricted where consumers have the opportunity of attending the auction in person.

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silkenrobe
Community Member
Posts: 6,233
Registered: ‎23-10-2006

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to gone-fishing10

gone-fishing10 wrote:

I thought that I would share the following  template of letter relating to returning faulty goods where the seller asks you to pay for the return postage:

 

Dear (company name) Reference:  Contract number (E Bay Item No)

 

I have discovered that the (item) has the following problems:

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 makes it an implied term of the contract that goods be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.  Any returns policy that says I have to cover the cost of returning items must only relate to the situation where I change my mind about the item ordered and not where there is a problem with the item.  I should not lose out financially as a result of your breach of contract and accordingly all costs of returning the item(s) should be met by you.

 

I also require you to confirm whether you will arrange for the (item) to be collected or will reimburse me for the cost of returning it.

 

Yousrs faithfully.

 

(your name here)

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Good.  It's fantasitc you realise your rights BUT this is unenforcable using ebay/PP dispute process.  If you insist on this via the dispute process it is highly likely you will lose out on any refunds due to you
These rights are only as good as your ability to enforce them and run as an addition to buyer protection 

 

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You will never persuade me to buy a mobile 'phone on ebay
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fastcakes
Community Member
Posts: 4,189
Registered: ‎13-10-2006

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to silkenrobe

AUCTIONS

You do not always have the same rights when you buy at auction as you would have if you bought from a retailer.

Some goods sold at auction can are excluded from the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) (subject to a reasonableness test) in relation to satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and description. Notices can be displayed removing these rights, any exclusions must be subject to a reasonableness test. This is covered by the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.

The rights of consumers when buying new goods cannot be excluded in any auction. The rights of consumers when buying second-hand goods can (subject to a reasonableness test) be excluded or restricted. However, they can only be excluded or restricted where consumers have the opportunity of attending the auction in person.

 

--------------

 

Surely that refers to B&M auctions.

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bankhaunter
Community Member
Posts: 7,951
Registered: ‎22-10-2007

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to fastcakes

Surely that refers to B&M auctions.

 

It does.

 

Whether or not Ebay auctions are true auctions when it comes to Ebay auctions by businesses, has always been arguable but the revised DSRs will make it clear.

 

(13)       "public auction" means a method of sale where goods or services are offered by the trader to consumers, who attend or are given the possibility to attend the auction in person, through a transparent, competitive bidding procedure run by an auctioneer and where the successful bidder is bound to purchase the goods or services;

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silkenrobe
Community Member
Posts: 6,233
Registered: ‎23-10-2006

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to fastcakes
As bank says, of course, but it won't win you the dispute process, for that you follow ebay rules
If after that you wish to enforce your legal rights, you do that outside of ebays buyer protection
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You will never persuade me to buy a mobile 'phone on ebay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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hawquesgallery
Community Member
Posts: 3,023
Registered: ‎30-10-2005

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to silkenrobe

 It's fantasitc you realise your rights BUT this is unenforcable using ebay/PP dispute process.


 it won't win you the dispute process, for that you follow ebay rules

 

 

are these statements of fact?

 

as ebay do not make that statement 

 

which can either mean you misrepresent ebay or ebay do not, as you say, fully comply

 

which is it?

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tasharne10
Community Member
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎02-03-2011

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to gone-fishing10
I also have the same problem. I purchase a tablet recently from a supposedly "High power seller to find this item had no charger.

This clearly is in breach of the S O G A. I asked for a refund and was advised to return with me paying for postage. I intend to take my complaint to Trading Standards office and I will be sending an email to the BBC Watch dog programme re this.
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silkenrobe
Community Member
Posts: 6,233
Registered: ‎23-10-2006

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

[ Edited ]
in reply to hawquesgallery

Sigh, really, this again?
Yes, it is true, yes it is fact, yes ebay d not make that statement but nor do they enforce it - so make of that what you wish
The seller must fully comply, not ebay but we all know, well at least most of is do, that ebay cannot enforce these conditions and no buyer has ever won a dispute by insisting the seller collects the item as they cannot provide a tracking number 

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You will never persuade me to buy a mobile 'phone on ebay
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bankhaunter
Community Member
Posts: 7,951
Registered: ‎22-10-2007

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to silkenrobe

silkenrobe wrote:
As bank says, of course, but it won't win you the dispute process, for that you follow ebay rules
If after that you wish to enforce your legal rights, you do that outside of ebays buyer protection

I must add to that by pointing out that where purchases from a private seller are concerned, Ebay's Money Back guarantee in the vast majority of cases, gives far greater protection than the law provides.

 

I suspect that most successful SNAD claims from private sellers would never succeed in court where the 'S' in SNAD really does mean significant.

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froyoyabby
Community Member
Posts: 264
Registered: ‎17-10-2012

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

[ Edited ]
in reply to bankhaunter

bankhaunter wrote:

I must add to that by pointing out that where purchases from a private seller are concerned, Ebay's Money Back guarantee in the vast majority of cases, gives far greater protection than the law provides.

 


It seems Act 1979 covers more tahn 45 days.

 

According to Sales of Good act 

 

Customers’ rights last for six years
The law says that a customer can approach you with a
claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years
from the date of sale (five years after discovery of the problem
in Scotland).
This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six
years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the
customer to make a claim about an item. During this period,
you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims
that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty) and
you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of
time to expect the goods to last. A customer cannot hold you
responsible for fair wear and tear.
The six year period is not the same as a guarantee, but it does
mean that even where the guarantee or warranty supplied
with the product has ended, your customer may still have
legal rights.

I really don't know how this 6 years can be enforced. 

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bankhaunter
Community Member
Posts: 7,951
Registered: ‎22-10-2007

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to froyoyabby

Where sales by private sellers are concerned there are no implied terms as to quality, fitness for purpose, etc. only that the item should comply with it's description so SoGA would largely be irrelevant hence Ebay's MBG giving better protection.

 

The 6 year period is one in which a claim can be made, whether or not a claim is possible/successful would depend on relevant circumstances and the nature of the item.

 

What is often missed is that any refund after the buyer has had the goods for a time, can be reduced to take into account the use the buyer has made of the product.

 

There is a further complication which will arise when the revised DSRs come into effect in that where the seller whose sales are subject to the Regs, does not give a legal period in which the buyer can cancel the contract, the right of cancellation will extend up to 12 months.

 

If in that time the goods become faulty the buyer could cancel the contract and expect a full refund, the seller's only possible action would be a counterclaim for loss due to the buyer not taking reasonable care of the goods but they would have to prove that loss.

 

It will be very important for sellers to make sure they comply.

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gone-fishing10
Community Member
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎06-12-2009

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to bankhaunter

I wanted toshare this as too many sellers are asking buyers to pay return postage on faulty goods. 

 

I recently bought a dashboard camera which turned out to be faulty and the seller wanted me to pay £5:00p for return postage. (originally  asked for £10:00p).  Why should  buyer pay to return faulty goods.

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hawquesgallery
Community Member
Posts: 3,023
Registered: ‎30-10-2005

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to silkenrobe

silkenrobe wrote:

Sigh, really, this again?
Yes, it is true, yes it is fact, yes ebay d not make that statement but nor do they enforce it - so make of that what you wish
The seller must fully comply, not ebay but we all know, well at least most of is do, that ebay cannot enforce these conditions and no buyer has ever won a dispute by insisting the seller collects the item as they cannot provide a tracking number 


 

 

would you like to try again as your post contains various typo's and is nonsensical

 

and in case  of doubt i will repeat my post below:

 

 

silkenrobe wrote:   "... It's fantasitc you realise your rights BUT this is unenforcable using ebay/PP dispute process.


 it won't win you the dispute process, for that you follow ebay rules..."

 

 

i wrote:   are these statements of fact?

 

as ebay do not make that statement 

 

which can either mean you misrepresent ebay or ebay do not, as you say, fully comply

 

which is it?

 

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dadio501
Community Member
Posts: 585
Registered: ‎10-01-2013

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to hawquesgallery

This is an age old subject that will never go away, or ever be satisfactorily resolved.

 

In the days before pc's were invented, it was quite usual for companies, upon receiving complaints, to send pre-paid notes for buyers to send goods back if faulty, damaged etc.

 

Many companies thrive on eBay but do not offer this service, you may ask why?

 

Quite simply, because refunding on return of a product, is not enforced by eBay.

 

You may then ask the question why not?

 

The answer is to ask eBay. We all have to abide and adhere to their policies, and eBays stance is not so much "we can't enforce it", but more a case of "we don't enforce it".

 

We all sign up to behave ourselves, and conduct business in an appropriate manner, and adhere to the policies laid down by eBay.

 

If eBay changed their policy to make it compulsory for anyone selling to pay return postage costs, it would have to be adhered to, but they haven't.

 

It is no good either stating the sales of goods act, most will not go through that route, although it is a valid option.

 

Quite simply, many buyers have found themselves 'out of pocket', through no fault of their own, it has happened to me.

 

Until policy dictates a change, I'm afraid we are all at the mercy of sellers, and will have to grin and bear it, like it or not.

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silkenrobe
Community Member
Posts: 6,233
Registered: ‎23-10-2006

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to hawquesgallery
Throws up the 'o' that's missing from original quoted post

Other than that, no need to repeat ourselves now, is there?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You will never persuade me to buy a mobile 'phone on ebay
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tall.dude
Community Member
Posts: 3,216
Registered: ‎07-04-2013

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to hawquesgallery

The plural of typo is typos.

 

Only on eBay would you see someone berated for making typos by someone who doesn't use capital letters and misuses apostrophes.

 

Cringe.

 

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dadio501
Community Member
Posts: 585
Registered: ‎10-01-2013

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to tall.dude

Ouch! Be gentle

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hawquesgallery
Community Member
Posts: 3,023
Registered: ‎30-10-2005

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to tall.dude

tall.dude wrote:

The plural of typo is typos.

 

Only on eBay would you see someone berated for making typos by someone who doesn't use capital letters and misuses apostrophes.

 

Cringe.

 


 

 

unfortunately in your pursuit of berating me you achieve an own goal as there is no such word as typos

 

typo's is an abbreviation of typo/graphical error/s

 

and i'm not sure why you think ebay is contextually important enough for capitals

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hawquesgallery
Community Member
Posts: 3,023
Registered: ‎30-10-2005

Re: Sale of Goods Act 1979

in reply to silkenrobe

silkenrobe wrote:
Throws up the 'o' that's missing from original quoted post

Other than that, no need to repeat ourselves now, is there?

 

 

yes as it remains unanswered

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