OK, in or out?

How about an RT poll?

 

No reasons, no argument, no debate just a straightforward IN or OUT.

 

Me? OUT.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

How is opposition to a TTIP agreement a reason for advocating leaving the EU?

 

One of the tenets of the 'out' campaign is that leaving the EU will enable the UK to increase trade with countries such as the US - indeed it may be necessary to do so in order to offset any loss of exports to the EU.

 

Does anyone really think that will be possible whilst at the same time rejecting at least the same trade protocols as proposed in a TTIP agreement?

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Re: OK, in or out?

There's a subtle difference, the TTIP agreement being "Secretly" negotiated at the moment; is being negotiated by " Big Brother "......the EU....with their agenda of a Federal Europe as the backdrop. The other parties involved, being " Big Business " and multi nationals; with their own agendas on access to markets, that will feather THEIR nests.......at the expense of small businesses and countries that aren't in " The Club ".........that's hardly free and fair trade now......is it !!

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Re: OK, in or out?

Well I don't know whose compiling these figures, but in the real world ( my sons ) EVERY extra person; who walks into A&E, or gets admitted to Hospital, or goes to see their GP, is an extra drain on the NHS. So, as well as our own population ageing and throwing up the extra health care issues that that entails......it's obvious that any other people, in addition to that, who require medical attention of any description......WILL be an extra demand / drain on the system. As far as extra Doctors are concerned, the ones coming on stream; are lost in the system, trying to take up the shortfall.......and get rostered into the black hole.

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Re: OK, in or out?


@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

No - my response was to claims that immigrants are a drain on the NHS resources and further immigration will increase that drain - figures however just don't back up that claim


 

It depends on what definition of drain is used, drain does no just have to imply monetary value.

 

The UK has the least amount of hospital beds in western Europe at 2.95 per 1000 people so if you thin it out with even more people then yes it's a drain.

 

Is it right that our old people who have paid in to the system all their working lives when they get to the age to call on the service that they've paid for have to take a back seat.

 

 

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Re: OK, in or out?

..........and just so EVERYBODY on here has the FACTS and not the garbage that politicians and other " Know nothing " IDIOTS try to peddle.

So far my Son has had to deal with a Cardiac arrest in A&E ( crash team ). He's had to send people for scans and X-Rays ( ordering the procedures directly himself ). He's had to certify a death & make out a death certificate. He's had to break the news of a death to relatives. He's had to make out a discharge report / discharge a patient & write a follow up letter to the patient's GP.  He and another F1 Doctor have done a Ward Round and in case people don't know.

AS AN F1 DOCTOR, HE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING ANY OF THESE THINGS ON HIS OWN.........but, as he says, without consultants or S.H.O's, what are you supposed to do........just let everybody " go to hell ".  This is life in the NHS in a Hospital that's in special measures.........not fiction........THE TRUTH !!............and when he first got there and mentioned a few ideas, that might improve things, he was told by a consultant not to " rock the boat " or he could find himself out of a job.

I don't know where he got his care and compassion from, the World sent mine to Hell............years ago.

 

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Re: OK, in or out?


@evoman3957 wrote:

There's a subtle difference, the TTIP agreement being "Secretly" negotiated at the moment; is being negotiated by " Big Brother "......the EU....with their agenda of a Federal Europe as the backdrop. The other parties involved, being " Big Business " and multi nationals; with their own agendas on access to markets, that will feather THEIR nests.......at the expense of small businesses and countries that aren't in " The Club ".........that's hardly free and fair trade now......is it !!


That may or may not be the situation but IF such a trade agreement is reached between the EU and the USA do you really believe that the UK as a far smaller trading partner wouldn't have to comply with the terms of that agreement if we wanted to increase our trade with the US?

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Re: OK, in or out?


@evoman3957 wrote:

Well I don't know whose compiling these figures, but in the real world ( my sons ) EVERY extra person; who walks into A&E, or gets admitted to Hospital, or goes to see their GP, is an extra drain on the NHS. So, as well as our own population ageing and throwing up the extra health care issues that that entails......it's obvious that any other people, in addition to that, who require medical attention of any description......WILL be an extra demand / drain on the system. As far as extra Doctors are concerned, the ones coming on stream; are lost in the system, trying to take up the shortfall.......and get rostered into the black hole.


Depends on the way you look at it.  One policy may restrict the number of additional patients but if that same policy restricts resources, financial and human, then it may well be less able to deal with those patients in comparison to a policy that may increase the number of patients but also increases resources available to the NHS.

 

 

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Re: OK, in or out?


@evoman3957 wrote:

..........and just so EVERYBODY on here has the FACTS and not the garbage that politicians and other " Know nothing " IDIOTS try to peddle.

So far my Son has had to deal with a Cardiac arrest in A&E ( crash team ). He's had to send people for scans and X-Rays ( ordering the procedures directly himself ). He's had to certify a death & make out a death certificate. He's had to break the news of a death to relatives. He's had to make out a discharge report / discharge a patient & write a follow up letter to the patient's GP.  He and another F1 Doctor have done a Ward Round and in case people don't know.

AS AN F1 DOCTOR, HE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING ANY OF THESE THINGS ON HIS OWN.........but, as he says, without consultants or S.H.O's, what are you supposed to do........just let everybody " go to hell ".  This is life in the NHS in a Hospital that's in special measures.........not fiction........THE TRUTH !!............and when he first got there and mentioned a few ideas, that might improve things, he was told by a consultant not to " rock the boat " or he could find himself out of a job.

I don't know where he got his care and compassion from, the World sent mine to Hell............years ago.

 


The doctors, nurses and support staff are all saints as far as I'm concerned.  I've only been admitted to hospital for two problems during my adult life, for a broken neck vertebrae about 15 years ago and just recently for unstable angina.  Every single member of staff I came into contact with, from the A&E receptionist to the neurosurgeon demonstrated a level of care beyond reproach.

 

Yes there were staff shortages as demonstrated by the signs outside each ward and department stating the 'planned' number of staff and the actual number on duty.

 

There are just three ways to overcome that shortage, reduce the services offered, reduce the number of patients or increase the number of staff.  The first is politically unacceptable, the second physically impossible, leaving the third as the only viable option.   Restricting a growth in the number of patients by restricting immigration won't make the current situation better - the absolute most it can do is stop it getting worse.

 

So what does the UK government do to help the situation - it introduces 'tougher' immigration rules for non-EU citizens requiring an immigrant who has been working in this country for 6 years but is earning less than £35k a year to leave - the result, tens of thousands of nurses and teachers will be deported - if that's an example of the sort of policy that will be applied to EU citizens if we opt out of Europe then I have to say that I'm not impressed.

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Re: OK, in or out?

That just goes to prove how insidious those behind the campaign to stay in Europe really are and what lengths they will go to, to crush, destroy, or discredit those that don't agree with them. The same establishment cronies, who took us into Iraq under false pretences, backed the " Arab Spring " in Tunisia, Egypt & Libya.....leaving 2 of those countries fragmented and bordering on dysfunctional. Created ISIS, by dabbling and then sitting on the fence; while a vacuum was created in Syria & Iraq and readily filled, by let down and aggrieved people. The same establishment that encourages whistle blowing in corrupt organisations ( including the NHS ) and then sits back, while the whistle blowers are sacked, ostracized and ruined.

Now they're implying that we couldn't survive without staying in Europe..........MMmmmm don't you just know that some power hungry " Boys Club " is orchestrating this........AS WELL !!

People who can't recognise the real " Power Brokers " in this World can never win, if people are destined to be puppets; at least find out whose pulling your strings.

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Re: OK, in or out?

The problem is not that the British Chamber of Commerce is in favour of staying in the EU and suspended John Longworth because he disagreed with that stance which is how the Daily Mail presented it.  The BCC had actually voted to retain a neutral stance on the referendum and to not comment on the arguments being presented by either side.

 

John Longworth broke that policy decision - if he didn't agree with the neutral stance of the BCC then the honourable thing to do would have been to resign before making his position public - he certainly shouldn't have used an invitation to speak as head of the BCC in order to make his point.

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Re: OK, in or out?

From what I've seen on BBC TV news reports, they seem biased in favour of staying in, they're not neutral at all.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

Apart from the speech by John Longworth I haven't seen any official comment on the EU debate by the BCC one way or the other.

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Re: OK, in or out?

If you don't watch the BBC news you won't see/hear what their "reporters" and "commentators" are saying. It's "Our Political Editor" or "Our Financial Correspondent" & etc etc...... They've all got something to say!



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

The BBC have always been notorious bias and their left wing attitudes, are always smouldering just beneath the surface. The reporter Nick Robinson ( currently recovering from Cancer i believe ) just couldn't help himself, ousing his left wing tendencies, every time he did a report. You've still got the die hards, like David Attenborough, singing the praises of the GREAT BRITISH BROADCASTING CORPORATION; but after all the scandals, unprofessionalism and corruption that's been exposed in their ranks..................it aint so GREAT any more.....as far as I'm concerned.  Most people with money, influence and power have got an opinion AND an agenda.......you've got to be dopey not to see that in life.  Just because they cosmetically pretend to create an impression, that they don't have an opinion and / or they're keeping a lid on them; that's just mind games and sometimes silence itself speaks volumes.

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Re: OK, in or out?

 

UK too small to thrive outside the EU?  Came across this (from the BBC!):

 

Tiny Singapore thrives as centre of regional economy:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk9eMVBaip0

 

 

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Re: OK, in or out?


@john.b74 wrote:

This is worth a read.   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3478634/Business-boss-suspended-backing-Brexit-says-Brussels...


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/27/small-business-owners-letter-telegraph-conservative-...

How many of the ones who actually signed, not the fraudulent ones, are part of the bcc?

The bcc is not and cannot be neutral.

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Re: OK, in or out?

The individual Chambers aren't neutral - my local one is vociferously campaigning to stay in whilst two other local Chambers are campaigning for Brexit - that is why the British Chamber of Commerce has to remain neutral and apart from its ex-chairman who decided to use an official engagement to speak out has done so.

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Re: OK, in or out?

The true scale of immigration to Britain by EU citizens is being kept secret by Government officials, it emerged last night.

Top civil servants, led by HMRC boss Lin Homer, are refusing to publish figures that could reveal up to 1.3million extra migrants living in the UK. If revealed, the data could have an explosive impact on the EU debate.

Requests to get to the truth have been thwarted for more than three months, with time now running out before the June 23 vote
Office for National Statistics figures show some 904,000 EU migrants have arrived in Britain since June 2010 – but in the same time, officials issued 2.2million national insurance numbers to EU migrants. The ONS yesterday admitted the numbers do not appear to add up.
HM Revenue and Customs admits holding the information, but has been refusing to answer Freedom of Information requests and Parliamentary questions on the matter.
Officially, 257,000 EU nationals were said to have arrived last year, but 630,000 from the EU were given NI numbers. This includes 209,000 NI numbers given to Romanians and Bulgarians, despite only 55,000 officially settling here last year. 
The first request for the data was made by economist and former government advisor Jonathan Portes in November. The Government rejected the request in mid-December, saying that releasing the information would be 'unhelpful' to Mr Cameron's renegotiations.
Mr Portes appealed, but last month the Government again refused – this time claiming it would be too expensive.
So much for honesty and integrity.
 
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