THE EBAY OF 2025 - WHAT TO EXPECT AS A SMALL PRIVATE SELLER - SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO ?

[bittyboy101]

Just as the title says...

Apparently a few disturbing/concerning changes to eBay coming in January & February 2025... 

1) eBay Managed Shipping.

2) Payment Holds until delivery of a sold item has been confirmed.

So I'm a bit confused about number 1 - eBay's managed shipping... Not sure how this is going to work ? and whether it will be something like Packlink (only made compulsory instead of optional) ... or will it be like an "eBay Global Shipping program" type of setup where we send our sold items to eBay's 3rd party distributor and they then forward the item to the buyer by their default postal service ??... something tells me this could be Evri  (Hermes ! )  - Not happy or comfortable with this !  knowing Evri aren't always great !  😞

Moving on to number 2 - payment holds/delays until a sold items has been confirmed delivered (or 14 days have passed since buyer purchased the item and the buyer hasn't opened any cases during that time)... This can now be time consuming to get paid... Like eBay's new managed payments wasn't already slow enough !... now it's getting even slower !... not ideal if you've  got little money in the bank that week and have to 'find money upfront' to pay for posting sold items (this can get pretty expensive if 2 or 3 heavy items which cost £20 to post sell on eBay at the same time to different buyers)... Oh wait a moment... Conveniently eBay now does managed shipping and  they'll let you have an advance on your buyer's payment to cover shipping costs PROVIDING YOU BUY IT AT AN INFLATED RATE FROM EBAY ONLY !... How nice !  😞 

Now the debate of whether I should stay ? or go ?

I have always loved buying and selling on eBay for many years... Would it be worth carrying on with these new changes which are very worrying... or would it be better to do what the old saying says and QUIT WHILST YOU'RE AHEAD ???

All comments welcome - The good, the bad and the ugly - Let's know what you all think !

would a small private seller be skinned alive by the new 2025 eBay ? I wonder ! 🤔 🙄 😁   

[lucy_farmer]

Yes! that's how I filter it.... keeps piles of Chinese tat at the back of the queue 😁

[dch2112011]

---

@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

I sell on car boots and e bay and basically not much gets sold on the car boot for more than a £1!   I only buy stuff from car boots or charity shops for my personal use because i am too tight to go into real shops and pay £20/30 for a blouse from M & S.   In my 70s now and i do not require a whole host of clothing.   I have enough stuff from my family to sell that i have no need to look for anymore.   

---

Thanks for sharing !

[sml192]

---

@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

So if the seller never sees any of the money in their bank account how does that work with HMRC as e bay say that it will be included in your e bay earnings.  Surely that money cannot be part of our earnings if we are not setting the price for it and it never appears in our bank accounts??  Probably just being thick as we are all in simple delivery/buyer fees/waiting for your money overload at the moment.

---

Up to now the buyer has paid the seller for the postage and then the seller pays the carrier so the postage forms part of the seller's earnings.

With eBay's new 'Simple Delivery' the buyer pays eBay for the postage and then eBay pays the carrier direct so the postage won't be included in the seller's earnings. 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

not according to FAQ'S about Simple Delivery - that states 'The label cost, covered by buyers payment, is  included in your e bay sales earnings'.  That means (as i understand it and i may well be wrong) that the HMRC will just see the final figure that we receive.  Surely as we are buying the postage from e bay we are actually a customer of theirs for the postage??   

[papso22]

---

@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

not according to FAQ'S about Simple Delivery - that states 'The label cost, covered by buyers payment, is  included in your e bay sales earnings'.  That means (as i understand it and i may well be wrong) that the HMRC will just see the final figure that we receive.  Surely as we are buying the postage from e bay we are actually a customer of theirs for the postage??   

---

I see that as saying your sales earnings, as passed to HMRC under the new reporting system, will be item value plus postage paid by the buyer.

But then we are back to the figure being reported to HMRC being irrelevant for private sellers just getting rid of their unwanted personal possessions, so does it matter?

If someone is trading incorrectly on a private account and yet doing tax returns then the postage under simple delivery should be income as well as a cost, it cancels out.  If it doesn't work then the solution is simple!

[incredible_how]

thanks for the reminder - yes Evri do have quite a list of things they won't compensate for if damaged. But do they compensate if they lose it?

[theelench]

Surely it does matter, including the cost of postage in the "Sale Price" is inflating the sellers earnings.  Aren't there going to be private sellers who are only reported at all because their postage costs have taken them over the £1700 threshold?

As a business seller you are familiar enough with accounting procedures (and possibly have an App to do the calculation for you) to understand double-entry book keeping and cancelling out.

How many private sellers are as well informed as you and how many will be confused by the whole idea of including postage as both income and expenses?

From ebay's point of view, postage is not part of the sellers earnings.  They are never paid the money, nor do they pay for the postage, it has nothing to do with their 'earnings', the postage cost goes straight to ebay who then pay the delivery company.

It is ebay that is charging the buyer for delivery and ebay, as stated by the CEO, that is using Simple Delivery as a revenue stream, using its buying power and making a profit from the difference between its cost and what it charges the buyer.  (I wonder if ebay is going to pay any UK tax on ITS profit from this??)

As Simple Delivery is a system imposed by ebay and ebay is the only seller who makes any profit from it, it should be excluded from the earnings of the seller and only the nett amount (the price of the sold goods) reported to HMRC if the Private seller needs to be reported at all.

[papso22]

If the postage is what pushes a seller over the money value reporting threshold I strongly suspect they would have gone over the 30 sales limit already, but I accept there may some infrequent sellers of high value items that it might impact. A single sale of £1,700 plus postage, will do it for example.

They will have to take their chances with HMRC like everyone else, but I don't think HMRC will waste time with low volume sellers.

And yes, I have sadly been familiar with double entry bookkeeping for almost 40 years, but only businesses have to deal with that.  It can remain a mystery for genuine private sellers.

[theelench]

Yes, but in all probability so will a single sale of  £1650 + P&P.  I see that it will probably affect relatively few genuine private sellers, but it should not affect any at all.  It looks to me like ebay designed its reporting system before they thought about making Simple Delivery mandatory for all private sellers when for sellers postage has previously always been a deductible cost in any involvement with HMRC.  That's simple enough and far easier to understand for any seller.  (Sale price - postage - any other fees = earnings)

Ebay is now adding yet another complication to this situation and worrying enough already for those completely unfamiliar with dealing with HMRC beyond PAYE.  Ebay is now going to report postage as earnings, leaving the seller to sort-out how much of their earnings are, in fact, deductible expenses.

Why should private sellers, entirely innocent of trading, have to "take their chances with HMRC like everyone else" because ebay is reporting incorrect inflated figures?  Ebay should get its system right and report private sellers earnings from the sale of their possessions, excluding ebay's earnings.

You think that HMRC will not waste their time on low volume sellers?  I have serious doubts about that.  They have invested £millions and taken on extra staff to deal with what they say is a serious amount of tax evasion.  They will without doubt want to justify that investment and assumption with enough 'return' to prove they were right.  IMO they will go after anyone that they think will roll over and pay whatever is demanded.  The more vulnerable and confused the better.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

I am talking about people like myself who are private sellers but as in my case are over the personal tax threshold (i am retired and have two small pensions which i pay tax on), as i understood that could take me into the paying tax on e bay funds?  I have never done a self assessment for tax and am just going to wait until they get in touch with me to find out what happens in regard to that.   Just another confusing happening with e bay (and of course all the other online selling sites)

[lucy_farmer]

'IMO they will go after anyone that they think will roll over and pay whatever is demanded.  The more vulnerable and confused the better.'

Yep, the 'low hanging fruit'.

Which is a shame, as any monies they manage to squeeze out of the small-selling vulnerables will not even touch the sides of 'helping to balance the govt. books'.

Whereas chasing one or two of the really big boys would be enough to heat all pensioners' homes this winter...

[incredible_how]

I assumed the postage was already included in earnings, that it was the full amount including fees and postage. I have kept a spreadsheet.

Also I haven't been clear if it is £1000 or £1700. It's easy to reach the 30 limit, which is why I think it will cost HMRC more to deal with than any returns they get, tho maybe that  just makes them go harder after some.

[valueaddedresource]

It's also important to note that the part about including postage in seller's earnings only applies to clothing, Simple Delivery items in other categories are handled differently.

What will the transactions look like for the delivery costs?

For clothing categories:
When your buyer pays for delivery at checkout, the amount will be credited to and deducted from your account and paid to Packlink, the label provider. You'll receive a postage label and QR code to post the sold item. The label cost, covered by the buyer's payment, is included in your eBay sales earnings.

See Reconciling your eBay sales transactions for further information. 

For all other eligible categories:
Your buyer will pay for delivery at checkout and you’ll receive a postage label and QR code to post the sold item. Delivery costs are paid to eBay.

I don't know anything about how taxes work in the UK so can't comment on any of that, but it may be relevant especially to the discussions about number of items/monetary thresholds for reporting - while it's certainly possible a private seller could be selling some personal high value luxury brand clothing that may exceed a threshold quickly, I would guess most are probably not going to hit that threshold in one or even a few transactions.

[da-vids]

Most accounting is done within eBay with managed payments and using balance to pay postage, you never see FVF so the number that hits your bank is what you would declare, minus any real world deductions. There is no set way to do it, tax man has to accept what you declare, just do it honestly and correctly. Filing and declaring is simple but at the same time pain in the bum.

[papso22]

I am struggling to see the justification for different accounting treatment according to category.  Perhaps it's something to do with Packlink's involvement in one of them.

[theelench]

The basic point is that in the UK private citizens can sell their possessions and the proceeds are not taxable. 

Anyone 'trading' i.e buying or making something with the intention of selling for profit, is Trading and liable to pay tax on their profit as they are in business.

That is an (over) simplification, there are exceptions where high value possessions sales proceeds are taxable on an individual basis.

So a business can (and do) register as a Private Seller on ebay and until now can get away with not paying any tax. on their earnings on ebay (or other on-line selling sites) 

It is this that HMRC are trying to crack down on, genuine private sellers correctly registered with ebay and legally paying no tax, should not be affected.  But I wonder.

HMRC has a fearsome reputation when going after those it suspects of tax evasion, added to which many in the UK have never filed a Tax Return as their income is dealt with by Pay As You Earn (PAYE) and have never had any dealings with HMRC to speak of.  Their reputation alone strikes fear of heavy handed investigation, particularly as the principal of "Innocent until proven guilty" does not apply to investigations by HMRC, the accused has to provide enough proof to HMRC to satisfy them of innocence.  Many entirely genuine private sellers will probably stop selling rather than risk entanglement with them.

In my view the hoped for result of many correctly registered business sellers on ebay, that this will get rid of large numbers of businesses Trading on private accounts, is unlikely.  Businesses breaking ebay policies know exactly what they are doing and while taking the advantages of registering as "Private", will also be correctly registered with HMRC and paying their taxes in full and it will mostly be genuine private sellers who will be inconvenienced and frightened -off on-line selling. 

I didn't realise there are differences within Simple Delivery for how postage is viewed and to be honest, to me, that just makes it worse, even more confusing and inconsistent.

[dcd_collectables]

The best way for private sellers to send a message to eBay that we are unhappy with the proposed changes (as let face it, it’s not like they are going to listen to reasonable arguments) is to leave. I’m not talking about permanently, just temporary so that they notice the significant drop in activity on the site that us private sellers bring. To do this, all we need to is utilise the  tools eBay having given us, namely the Time Away function. I propose that we opt to set our time away for 30 days from the 15th January 2025. If enough people were to actually take this action, I would be very surprised if they didn’t reverse the changes before they’ve even come in. 

[charliethestardog]

Great idea. I removed lots of items k had for sale recently. Remove the last one at the end of this month. 

[dawns9326]

Good Idea!

[myoldpaperclutter]

Holding funds for 14 days for low value untracked items is tantamount to treating all honest sellers as dishonest. If they’re holding funds to make profits that is exploitation which I hope the FCA investigates. They already have a means of refunding buyers as they have access to our bank accounts. Ebay UK are keeping very tight lipped about all this negative reaction; I’ll love to know what their UK CEO, Eve Williams, is thinking? Come on let’s see some sort of response👂.