Defrauded by a buyer

[gileso123]

Late last year I sold an item on Ebay. The person complained about the item and demanded a refund claiming it was not as described; he also gave me negative feedback.  He was refunded but did not return the items. Within a short time, items identical to the ones I had sold him were being advertised by him on ebay. He claimed one item was damaged and sent a photo of the alleged damage. I did not sell him an item damaged in that way. 

He is a rechromer and has admitted that to me. I think he has rechromed my items, which are my property, and is now selling  them on ebay. I made a complaint to ebay and ebay did nothing at all about it. I am unable to contact ebay despite my belief that he has committed a criminal offence, that of theft.

I am disgusted at the way both he and ebay have behaved over this. I have a negtive rating and do not have my goods back. 

[papso22]

Why did they get a refund without returning the items?

If you refunded without return, or ebay stepped in to do it, then the buyer is told they don't have to return the items.

[4_bathrooms]

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@gileso123 wrote:

Late last year I sold an item on Ebay. The person complained about the item and demanded a refund claiming it was not as described; he also gave me negative feedback.  He was refunded but did not return the items. 

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How did he receive a refund without returning the items? If your buyer opened an "item not as described" case you should have uploaded a return label and either refunded upon return of the goods or reported a problem via the case (i.e. if the buyer sent something different back).

There is nothing eBay can do now. If you voluntarily refunded the buyer that was the end of eBay's involvement. If eBay forced a refund (i.e. because you didn't issue a return label) eBay would have told the buyer they didn't need to return the goods when they issued the refund.

Your only hope of recourse now is via a small claim which isn't guaranteed to get your money back. If the buyer is a business and you have their business address your chances are somewhat better.

[cobwebcottage]

Last year?

For your own sanity, move on and put it behind you.

[4_bathrooms]

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@cobwebcottage wrote:

Last year?

For your own sanity, move on and put it behind you.

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I suspect the OP has taken issue with the fact their buyer turned out to be a trader who likely took advantage of them in order to obtain some free stock; stock the buyer has apparently recently reconditioned and is now offering for sale themself.

Something that is clear is the OP didn't follow eBay's returns process correctly which is what initially left them out of pocket. They could still pursue the trader via a small claim - the OP mentions a website in their feedback response. Whether doing so will be worthwhile or not will depend on the status of the trader; i.e. whether they are a sole trader or a registered company, whether they store their stock at their home address or in a warehouse/industrial unit...things the OP would need to find out.

[cobwebcottage]

The buyer has not acted dishonestly or taken advantage of the seller. Item was NAD in their opinion and they opened a case for a refund/return. Looks like the seller did not respond to the case ( from feedback which is over 6 months old) so the case was closed and buyer did not need to return the items ( Ebay rules).

BS registered as a PS. Well that's a different scenario.

I can't see any reference to a website in the feedback. I took 'on your site' to mean their Ebay listings

[gileso123]

You have made several assumptions which are incorrect. First, you seem to assume that I have failed to act until now. In fact I tookit up with Ebay witin three months of the fraud occurring. Second, you do not seem to question the actions of the buyer in apparently damaging one of the products and then photographing it as 'evidence' to obtain a refund, hence behaving fraudulently. Third, neither do you seem to question the ethics of someone who fails to return goods despite having obtained a refund and hence no longer owning the goods, who then seemingly rechromes them and then resells them within weeks of the dispute occurring..

Finally, you do not seem to recognise the truth; that under British law a criminal offence has possibly taken place, that of theft. Ebat might be a major international corporation but it is not above British law.

I'd like to know what your legal training and qualifications are that you consider yourself so learned in the law.

[gileso123]

Why should I put it behind me? It's people who lie back and let others ride roughshod over them who contribute to the problems we have in society. If everyone fought back against this kind of behaviour its occurrence would be less frequent.

[jonatjonatjonat]

How did he end up getting refunded?

[superchallenge]

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@gileso123 wrote:
You have made several assumptions which are incorrect. First, you seem to assume that I have failed to act until now. In fact I tookit up with Ebay witin three months of the fraud occurring. Second, you do not seem to question the actions of the buyer in apparently damaging one of the products and then photographing it as 'evidence' to obtain a refund, hence behaving fraudulently. Third, neither do you seem to question the ethics of someone who fails to return goods despite having obtained a refund and hence no longer owning the goods, who then seemingly rechromes them and then resells them within weeks of the dispute occurring..

Finally, you do not seem to recognise the truth; that under British law a criminal offence has possibly taken place, that of theft. Ebat might be a major international corporation but it is not above British law.

I'd like to know what your legal training and qualifications are that you consider yourself so learned in the law.

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Firstly, take a step down off your high horse.

Secondly, before you get your back up and start striking out at everybody who doesn't immediately take your side, everybody here would like to know the actual facts about what happened. So far, we have "A man bought a thing and got his money back and kept the item and then I think he sold it again. This is fraud and everyone is wrong but me."

Finally, you may have somehow taken it up with eBay "within three months of the fraud occurring", but the buyer would have been refunded long before that - within 30 days of purchase, in fact. People are asking you HOW did that happen?

Did he request a refund, and you just gave it to him?

OR

Did he request a refund, you ignored the request or didn't take action in time, and so eBay automatically refunded him?

OR

Some other way.

[cobwebcottage]

I have based my facts on your post, feedback and the buyers feedback.

I may be a bit rusty with my knowledge of criminal law although the definition of theft hasn't changed and the points to prove are not there.

Happy to let you know what training and qualifications I have to support my statement if you wish to PM me.

[*vyolla*]

eBay won't get involved with this, their time to get involved was when the not as described return was still active.

eBay don't get to see the actual item that the buyer received, not can they see the actual item that the buyer is now selling. Even if it has serial numbers on it and you can prove that it's your item, you should not have refunded before issuing a returns label and getting your item back. 

[gileso123]

That doesn't matter. What is relevant is that this Ebayer is holding my property, has failed to return it, and now seems to be selling it on Ebay. That my friend is theft. Theft is a crime under law. Wake up and accept it.

[gileso123]

I  refused to issue a refund as the items were as described and it was clear from the picture he supplied that the damaged item in the picture  was not in the state it was when I sent it to him.  Ebay  issued a refund. When I  reported this buyer to Ebay,  Ebay issued a message claiming that would investigate the matter and report back to me. They failed to report back.

The items ceased to be my property on  receipt of payment by me. They were thenceforth the property of the person who purchased them from me. On issue of a refund, which was taken from my funds, they became once gain my property. They remain my property and I have seen him advertising the same items on his Ebay page. If those are the items he purchased from me and failed to return, that is theft.

[gileso123]

I have sent you a private message and await a reply.

The items I sold this person have now reverted to being my property, ever since a refund was made, and I believe that he is now selling them on ebay. That, if true, is theft.

[jonatjonatjonat]

BUT how were they refunded?

if you refunded them prior to a return, eBay treat that as a returnless refund.

But that’s a guess, as you haven’t yet stated how the refund took place.

[gileso123]

I have stated clearly above the circumstances in which a refund was issued. I refused a refund as the goods  supplied were as stated.

[*vyolla*]

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@gileso123 wrote:
That doesn't matter. What is relevant is that this Ebayer is holding my property, has failed to return it, and now seems to be selling it on Ebay. That my friend is theft. Theft is a crime under law. Wake up and accept it.

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It's not theft.

If you refused to accept the return then eBay may tell the buyer to keep the item. It tells you that in the User Agreement, the one that you signed and agreed to when you opened your eBay account.

So, the buyer hasn't 'stolen' your item in the eyes of the law.

[jonatjonatjonat]

OK - so what was the return reason?

If it was Item Not as Described and was under the ebay money back guarantee - unfortunately, you can't reject those.

If you did reject it - that is why the customer was refunded and that is why what has happened has happened.

It is immaterial what happened after unfortunately - because you didn't follow ebays rules.

In future - just accept ebay return requests for item not as described (even if you don't believe it - you can take that up after the return has taken place).

[cobwebcottage]

I have replied to your message.