MESSAGE TO EBAY: YOU GIVE WITH ONE HAND AND TAKE MORE AWAY WITH THE OTHER!

[whitehouselearning]

MESSAGE TO EBAY

YOU GIVE WITH ONE HAND AND TAKE MORE AWAY WITH THE OTHER!

Your new rules are both unfair and highly prejudicial to private sellers for the following reasons:

1. Buyer Protection Fee means that if a seller lists an item for £18.51you will change that to £20.00. How is this protecting or helping sellers to sell their items at a reasonable price?
2. You have decreed that you will immediately add the Buyer Protection fee to all existing Buy-It-Now listings. Not only is this extremely unfair it is also utterly deplorable and its lawfulness is questionable. Such retrospectivity is rarely applied to our laws the expectation of individuals being, that if their actions today are considered by a future court, the applicable law at that time will be performed; but it also flies in the face of all acceptable business practice because it invalidates what was previously valid by enacting that, as at a past date the rules shall be taken to have been that which they were not.
3. Calling this a "Buyer Protection Fee" is an invidious euphemism which is not fooling anyone since it is, in fact, yet another means for you to earn more money off the backs of struggling sellers.
4. You are giving buyers 24/7 customer support so that they can connect with a real person by phone at any time of day - but you have failed to afford sellers - who really need this - the same facility.
5. "Paid After Delivery" means sellers cannot post very light and low cost items by ordinary mail but must swallow the extra cost to send them tracked and which, in many cases is more than the sale price of the item.
6. Your new rule for "untracked deliveries, or tracked deliveries with no delivery confirmation signal, that funds will be available 14 days from the order date", is simply shocking because (which is not exhaustive):

          (a) You know perfectly well that couriers habitually leave items on the doorstep

          of buyers so that it could be stolen or unscrupulous buyers can falsely claim that

         they never received it; and  

         (b) You get to hold on to our money for even longer than when you used to charge 

         sellers a commission and paid out promptly; thereby earning vast amounts of

        interest for yourselves.

1.  Your 'Simple Delivery' means that sellers are forced take their items to a Post Office or drop it into a post box if it will fit. But, what about disabled sellers who cannot do this and rely upon collection (which Royal Mail provides for free)?
2. 'Simple Delivery' is provided by Packlink whom I would not use again if you paid me to do so since, in my experience, they are a thoroughly disreputable firm who use every possible device to avoid paying sellers the compensation they have paid for and have proven to be due.
3. Needless to say, you are undoubtedly earning a fat commission from Packlink as well.
4. The only 'new' assistance your rules offer sellers is that neutral or negative feedback for delivery-related issues can be requested to be removed from an account. This is nothing new as it was supposedly already in existence and I am forced to observe, from personal experience, that this quite the most disingenuous fairytale as you have failed to remove any such feedback in circumstances where the buyers have been proven to be lying.
5. The Global Shipping program. You are already charging private sellers an international fee of 3% if the delivery address for the item (entered by the buyer during checkout) is outside the UK which you unfairly calculate on the total amount of the sale which includes the item price, any handling charges, postage, and any applicable taxes.  
6. On top of all that, you have decreed that, on 20th January 2025, all active listings using the Multi-buy discount tool will automatically become multi-quantity listings, and the discounts will be removed.

In conclusion, I have shown that you have now made eBay a more horrible place for private sellers than before you brought in the 'free to sell' by clawing back even more than the commission you previously charged thereby (allegedly) giving with one hand and taking more away with the other.

I rest my case.

[the_bald_orc]

Honestly, the whole thing is messy, too messy.

Have one flat fee across the board for private and business sellers. Continue to let business sellers have shops which incur a further fee, and the one part I do agree with - reserve the multi item discounts and coupons for business sellers only.

[whitehouselearning]

Hi Lisa

Thank you for your post in response to vyolla's horrible comment "If you were trading correctly on a business account".

He/she backtracked somewhat by rather disingenously replying that it was, "a suggestion" but I feel compelled to further observe that, despite my having politely requested a retraction or apology - I have received neither!

[whitehouselearning]

Hi Lucy

I agree with everything you said and particularly loved your comment, "(a few posters on here have likened ebay to the 'punitive Labour govt'. : A huge American mega-corp like ebay is the furthest thing possible from anything left wing !

)"

[game_raid]

Are you being forced to sell here? @whitehouselearning 

If you don't like it leave it is as simple as that, it is eBay's business and if they decide to impose a buyer fee then no matter how big or a small a seller is they will not change this.

Of course they should have gone about it a different way and maybe not even offered free selling at all, only they can answer why they decided to on this.

You speak about lawfulness, what law have they broken? it is their site and business whether you like like it or not, if you don't like the policy move on, does anyone come around your house telling you how you should be doing things? I would imagine eBay have the best lawyers money can buy so If you are deciding to take legal action against them for introducing a fee, I wish you luck.

We are all dispensable, eBay will survive no matter who complains or leaves, do you not think they have data on how the changes may affect things and factored in that they will lose some sellers and buyers but there will be equal numbers signing up because they know it is easy to sell on here and often the cheapest place to buy, they want these buyers to have a good service from a seller because let's face it there is some truly bad ones on here who really don't care when an item is shipped or how they pack, I have actually had items delivered in bin liners, just recently I ordered an item from a private seller which was shipped with no tracking and I queried this with seller who replied by saying they haven't had time to go the post office yet but mark as dispatched, is that a good experience? and from what I gather I can now get a callback and complain about how this seller is operating so bringing in payment holds and tracking may improve the site as a whole which in turn gets sales for us all.

They also added it will commence on 4 Feb so it's not with immediate effect as you point out.

Are you really a struggling seller? If you are clearing items from around the home then you are not looking to make a profit, you are selling to make some extra cash, when I sell privately I am certainly not thinking I'm struggling with the fees imposed, I try and get the most I can like every other private seller moving their unwanted items on, try starting a website and driving traffic see how that works out for you, a few quid to sell an item is very reasonable.

You also mention about couriers leaving items on doorsteps, as long as it is delivered and the tracking shows this you ARE protected, it has always been this way.

We either adapt or move on it really is as simple as that.

I am out of here,  good luck to one and all.

[whitehouselearning]

Hi game_raid

Thank you for your somewhat irate dissertation and attestation of ebay's right to ride roughshod over their sellers, most of which I agree with.

The only paragraph with which I must take issue, is where you say, "You speak about lawfulness, what law have they broken? it is their site and business whether you like like it or not, if you don't like the policy move on, does anyone come around your house telling you how you should be doing things? I would imagine eBay have the best lawyers money can buy so If you are deciding to take legal action against them for introducing a fee, I wish you luck" because, with respect, you have either misunderstood or twisted my words.

Nowhere did I say they had "broken" any laws. What I did say was that the lawfulness of their retrospective decree that, "they will immediately add the Buyer Protection fee to all existing Buy-It-Now listings" was questionable and cited the fact that not only is such retrospectivity rarely applied to our laws; it also flies in the face of all acceptable business practice because it invalidates what was previously valid by enacting that, as at a past date the rules shall be taken to have been that which they were not! That was a perfectly legitimate observation to make and should not be construed in any other way. Nor did I say anything about taking legal action against them.

In closing, I note that you are leaving ebay and reciprocate with good wishes in your future endeavours.

Best Regards

JJ

[scammer_payback]

Bend over and take it, then pay up.

[sishi_5545]

Thank you for putting game raid in his place - I wanted to, but you how do argue with people like that. Most people's anger with Ebay is not the fee but the disportionate effect of the fee set at an inflexible 75p per item irrespective of the selling price. What about a two tier fee system the same as business sellers now enjoy for sales in the Collectables category for items under £10 ?

[vintique*violet]

You also mention about couriers leaving items on doorsteps, as long as it is delivered and the tracking shows this you ARE protected, it has always been this way.

Not according to some posts on here whereby the buyer appealed the decision of a delivery as it was " not in hand" - it was left somewhere ( who knows) and he did not receive it - eBay sided with the seller , due to tracking, but after the appeal the Buyer received a  full refund and the seller was without the item and the funds... 

It is not fair on buyers or sellers when they are at the hands of a " delivery service" who just leave parcels on bins, behind bins, in bushes or whatever... that is not a safe delivery service of which is paid for. 

If this becomes precedent , sellers will be nervous, which brings me to the BPF... Offering buyers a 24/7 chat service, assurance that the private sellers will not receive their funds until the  item is "considered  successfully delivered."  And secure transactions - thee have already been in place so it is nothing new as far as I can see.... 

Buyer Protection is a new programme that applies to all purchases on eBay.co.uk, and includes 24/7 customer support. Additionally, when you buy from a UK-based private seller, seller funds are sent after an item is considered delivered and a mandatory Buyer Protection fee is included in the item price.

Sellers funds will be made available to UK-based private sellers, to spend on eBay or withdraw, after the order is considered delivered or complete, which is determined by the delivery method:You can shop with confidence knowing that payment is only sent to private sellers after your order has been successfully delivered.

There is  already a system for loss/damage and / or non - delivery in place via the postage within many  courier terms - which the buyer has paid for and MBG applies for eligible items anyhow which is a free automatic coverage...this system has been working for many years. 

eBay Money Back Guarantee is an additional layer of protection on your purchase. If an item doesn’t arrive, is faulty or damaged, or doesn’t match the listing description, you can request a refund within 30 days of the delivery date. This service is free and applies to most items on our site.

Does Buyer Protection mean I’ll get a full refund if I don’t like what I’ve purchased, or if the item isn’t delivered?

Most purchases are covered by eBay Money Back Guarantee, our free protection programme that offers refunds if the item didn’t arrive, is faulty or damaged, or doesn’t match the listing. Learn more.

Our new Buyer Protection programme gives you even more reassurance with your purchase, knowing private sellers are paid after delivery, and you can talk to a real person 24/7 if you have any issues or questions.  

So eBay are still relying on their free MBG for buyers the new BPF is just as they state above in bold... 

 For Sellers....

Getting paid:

UK-based private sellers will have better visibility into when their funds are made available, to help manage their earnings. Funds will be made available, to spend on eBay or withdraw, after the order is considered delivered, which is determined based on the delivery method:

• For tracked deliveries, funds will usually be available 2 calendar days after we receive confirmation from the tracked shipping service that the delivery was successful. Where available, we recommend using eBay postage labels which include tracking, to ensure you receive your funds as soon as possible.
• For local collection, funds will be available when you exchange the 6 digit code or QR code with your buyer.
• If the item includes Authenticity Guarantee, funds will be available after the item is successfully authenticated.
• For items sent via Global Shipping Programme, funds will be available after the item is delivered to the UK Shipping Centre.
• For untracked deliveries, or tracked deliveries with no delivery confirmation signal, funds will be available 14 days from the order date. 

Note: If the buyer requests a return or has a problem with the order, we’ll wait until the issue is resolved before we release seller funds. Payment holds may apply. Please go here for more details.

BPF - the reason ?

We’ve made it free to sell for private sellers, so it’s easier than ever for more sellers to bring you a wider variety of things you love. To support this change, we will charge a buyer fee to cover Buyer Protection services and ensure a trusted experience when purchasing items from private sellers. For listings by business sellers, Buyer Protection is added at no extra cost. Business sellers already pay transaction fees with each item that sells.

I encourage everyone to read up on the BPF on the eBay FAQ for both buyers and sellers. 

If anyone can find what the actual Buyer Protection Services cover for their PURCHASES  and not just a " successful delivery"  which is tied to the holding of sellers funds - as the only services are the additional 24/7 customer support as far as I understand it.  

[whitehouselearning]

I am so glad you called game_raid out on this:

"You also mention about couriers leaving items on doorsteps, as long as it is delivered and the tracking shows this you ARE protected, it has always been this way.

Not according to some posts on here whereby the buyer appealed the decision of a delivery as it was " not in hand" - it was left somewhere ( who knows) and he did not receive it - eBay sided with the seller , due to tracking, but after the appeal the Buyer received a  full refund and the seller was without the item and the funds... "

I was going to but just did have the time and this was exactly the point I would have made. Kudos to you!

[*vyolla*]

---

@vintique*violet wrote:

eBay sided with the seller , due to tracking, but after the appeal the Buyer received a  full refund and the seller was without the item and the funds... 

---

Just to clarify, if an eBay item not received case is found in the sellers favour due to tracking showing delivery, and the buyer then appeals and wins, it's eBay who funds the payment in this instance, the seller doesn't lose out.

[frizztops0]

Well said and very well put. 

[vintique*violet]

Hi @*vyolla* 

The case in question the seller lost his funds and the item... The original poster is on this thread somewhere and was most upset. 

This is why eBay need to clarify " considered successful delivery" or Considered delivery" or Successful delivery"... as photos of the item on the doorstep was not sufficient as " not in hand"... 

I do find most of the new information particularly confusing and ambiguous. 

[*vyolla*]

---

@vintique*violet wrote:

Hi @*vyolla* 

The case in question the seller lost his funds and the item... The original poster is on this thread somewhere and was most upset. 

This is why eBay need to clarify " considered successful delivery" or Considered delivery" or Successful delivery"... as photos of the item on the doorstep was not sufficient as " not in hand"... 

I do find most of the new information particularly confusing and ambiguous. 

---

Did the buyer appeal to eBay and win a claim that was originally found in the sellers favour?

[vintique*violet]

Yes he did... they reversed their decision apparently. 

I do think leaving parcels on doorsteps in full view should not be an option for postal couriers... they used to leave a card if you were not  at home, either saying it was with a neighbour or when they would re-deliver or you could collect from a depot ( RM) . Nowadays people are having items stolen ( or unscrupulous buyers claiming " not in hand " not saying this happened with the original post/buyer) or they are being left in bins, or behind bins, or under cars  etc... 

[*vyolla*]

---

@vintique*violet wrote:

Yes he did... they reversed their decision apparently. 

I do think leaving parcels on doorsteps in full view should not be an option for postal couriers... they used to leave a card if you were not  at home, either saying it was with a neighbour or when they would re-deliver or you could collect from a depot ( RM) . Nowadays people are having items stolen ( or unscrupulous buyers claiming " not in hand " not saying this happened with the original post/buyer) or they are being left in bins, or behind bins, or under cars  etc... 

---

That does sound a little odd, but I'm not privy to what happened there.

I absolutely 100% agree with you about the packages being left in daft places from where they may be stolen, I had to issue two not received chargebacks one year because tracking showed delivery but in one of the photos it showed a package outside my gate on the pavement and the other had a photo of a porch, which was not my porch. 

[whitehouselearning]

---

@whitehouselearning wrote:

MESSAGE TO EBAY:

YOU GIVE WITH ONE HAND AND TAKE MORE AWAY WITH THE OTHER!

Your new rules are both unfair and highly prejudicial to private sellers for the following reasons:

1. Buyer Protection Fee means that if a seller lists an item for £18.51 you will change that to £20.00. How is this protecting or helping sellers to sell their items at a reasonable price?
2. You have decreed that you will immediately add the Buyer Protection fee to all existing Buy-It-Now listings. Not only is this extremely unfair it is also utterly deplorable and its lawfulness is questionable. Such retrospectivity is rarely applied to our laws the expectation of individuals being, that if their actions today are considered by a future court, the applicable law at that time will be performed; but it also flies in the face of all acceptable business practice because it invalidates what was previously valid by enacting that, as at a past date the rules shall be taken to have been that which they were not.
3. Calling this a "Buyer Protection Fee" is an invidious euphemism which is not fooling anyone since it is, in fact, yet another means for you to earn more money off the backs of struggling sellers.
4. You are giving buyers 24/7 customer support so that they can connect with a real person by phone at any time of day - but you have failed to afford sellers - who really need this - the same facility.
5. "Paid After Delivery" means sellers cannot post very light and low cost items by ordinary mail but must swallow the extra cost to send them tracked and which, in many cases, is more than the sale price of the item.
6. Your new rule for "untracked deliveries, or tracked deliveries with no delivery confirmation signal, that funds will be available 14 days from the order date", is simply shocking because (which is not exhaustive):

(a) You know perfectly well that couriers habitually leave items on the  doorstep of buyers so that it could be stolen or unscrupulous buyers can falsely claim that they never received it; and  

(b) You get to hold on to our money for even longer than when you used to charge sellers a commission and paid out promptly; thereby earning vast   amounts of interest for yourselves.

7. Your 'Simple Delivery' means that sellers are forced take their items to a Post Office or drop it into a post box if it will fit. But, what about disabled sellers who cannot do this and rely upon collection (which Royal Mail provides for free)?

8. 'Simple Delivery' is provided by Packlink whom I would not use again if you paid me to do so since, in my experience, they are a thoroughly disreputable firm who use every possible device to avoid paying sellers the compensation they have paid for and have proven to be due.

9. Needless to say, you are undoubtedly earning a fat commission from Packlink as well.

10. The only 'new' assistance your rules offer sellers is that neutral or negative feedback for delivery-related issues can be requested to be removed from an account. This is nothing new as it was supposedly already in existence and I am forced to observe, from personal experience, that this quite the most disingenuous fairytale as you have failed to remove any such feedback in circumstances where the buyers have been proven to be lying.

11. The Global Shipping program. You are already charging private sellers an International fee of 3% if the delivery address for the item (entered by the buyer during checkout) is outside the UK which you unfairly calculate on the total amount of the sale which includes the item price, any handling charges, postage, and any applicable taxes! 

12. On top of all that, you have decreed that, on 20th January 2025, all active listings using the Multi-buy discount tool will automatically become multi-quantity listings, and the discounts will be removed.

In conclusion, I have shown that you have now made eBay a more horrible place for private sellers than before you brought in the 'free to sell' by clawing back even more than the commission you previously charged thereby (allegedly) giving with one hand and taking more away with the other.

I rest my case.

---

[whitehouselearning]

---

@whitehouselearning wrote:

Hi Mick

Your post/reply is almost exactly on all fours with my situation. I am a retired IT engineer who has collected a lot of stuff over the years - a good deal of which is vintage and rare -  which I am attempting to clear out so as not to leave my loved ones with the problem of getting rid of it or throwing it out.

Your pithy, and eloquent, rendition of the fact that sellers such as ourselves could not possibly register a business account even if they wanted to, is also exactly on point and admirably summed up with your words, "If I tried to become a business, this would be fraudulent in itself as I would be claiming to be something I am not!" Almost all the items I am selling are pre-owned with very few being brand new - which, in most cases, means I just haven't used them.

---

[micks-music-and-magazine-emporium]

I had a buyer contact me a few days ago saying that he hadn't received an item he purchased from me on December the 20th, so i put the reference number in Royal Mail track and trace from my certificate of postage and it showed as posted on the 21st and delivered on the 23rd, with a photo of his wheelie bin. Now he says that he looked and found his parcel inside the bin but hadn't been notified by the postman. Maybe true although id of imagined there would have been at least one bin collection in that time. Either way, the postman had done his job and the system worked so I could prove delivery, yet under the new system, this wouldn't be sufficient for eBay, as it was sent standard, not tracked. Surely if RM provide a reference number which does prove delivery, then that should be enough?? 

[sishi_5545]

As a very frequent buyer on Ebay for no less than nine people in my family since 2007, I have had very few problems, and on the few occasions I have, sellers have invariably resolved it without fuss and without recourse to Ebay. I can count on one hand where the seller fails to respond, and I have escalated matters to Ebay and on every occasion refunds have been forthcoming almost immediately. To charge me 75p + 4% Buyer Protection on every item I buy for a problem that does NOT exist is frankly criminal. To me this smacks of the PPI Scandal - give it a few years and the lawyers will catch up and we will all be able to claim compensation ! In the meantime all it will mean is that buyers will desert the site in droves for the lower value items, and the private sellers that keep on trying will take a dive of about £1 on every item sold - far more than we were charged under the old system. Thank you very much Ebay.

[papso22]

Tracked is not necessary, posting via method that records delivery is all you need to defend item not received claims, at least according to Ebay's published seller protection.