Be Aware Market Flooded with Counterfeit Stamps from China

[epicurean11]

If you buy postage for your business on eBay you will find an array of offers - pretty much all the bulk offers I have seen from sellers who are not stamp dealers are counterfeit. It is a criminal offence to sell them and a criminal offence to use them in the Royal Mail system. eBay don't seem that interested. Last year a couple trading on the site were sent to prison. They all pay high levels of promotion fees, so they appear at the top of any random search i.e. 1st class stamps. They offer commemoratives in sheets and bundles and whether gummed (the gum doesn't actually work properly) or self-adhesive, they are 100% counterfeit. Your customers will be charged £5 on arrival by Royal Mail if they spot them...the fact that their barcode machines aren't active at the moment means most will get through but if you're not a crook I suggest you buy your postage from recognised stamp dealers and not guys selling models, shampoo and/or cleaning products who have suddenly come across £20,000+ worth of stamps at 1/4 of the market value.  

[roger_roger_over_and_nowt]

"Be Aware Market Flooded".

Very true,not just stamps.

[rare_treat]

This story broke months ago. It made headlines because a lot of genuine buyers (even shops) were falling for the fake ones. So local retailers “unknowingly” sold fake stamps at full price to genuine buyers. And RM made it worse by flagging some genuine stamps as fakes (or they sold fake stamps to some post offices!). It’s still an issue because, as you mention, RM still have not upgraded their systems to be able to detect these fakes properly. I do not agree with buying these fakes, but, RM should have sorted it themselves by now. Back then, a spokesperson for RM said: “We regularly monitor online marketplaces to detect suspicious activity, such as sales of heavily discounted stamps …”. So why are there still so many?
Plus, with RM continuing to push letter stamp prices through the roof, more honest people will be tempted by counterfeits.

Personally, I do not understand why so many experienced eBay sellers still use stamps or buy postage from the post office. Buying online is simpler, it integrates the tracking automatically, and, it is cheaper as well - except for letters (which are the same price). Perhaps someone can enlighten me?

[technthread]

I suppose the temptation is to buy stamps in bulk before the price increases and it gives the seller a future edge over their competitors.

I would imagine too that some sellers have an eye on tax liabilities, if they bulk buy stamps before 5th April it will reduce their profits = a lower tax bill and added benefit of the postage savings in the next tax year. 

My main reason for replying is to let people know if they go onto the Royal Mail app they now have a counterfeit stamp scanner to check any stamps they aren't sure about before they risk using them. 

[rare_treat]

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@technthread wrote:

I suppose the temptation is to buy stamps in bulk before the price increases and it gives the seller a future edge over their competitors.

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I can see that. But it's only really true for letters. The cost difference between online and stamps for parcels offsets any savings against old, lower priced stamps. Unless the stamps are really old!

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@technthread wrote:

I would imagine too that some sellers have an eye on tax liabilities, if they bulk buy stamps before 5th April it will reduce their profits = a lower tax bill and added benefit of the postage savings in the next tax year. 

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I didn't know that about the tax stuff for businesses.
I guess I'm more referring to private sellers who buy their postage at the post office. They hold up the queue, and cost themselves or the buyer more money. And I know from personal buying experience, some of these sellers have sold a lot of items, over many years. I don't understand why they still do it the old fashioned way. But I suppose that's off topic a bit anyway!

[manyjamjar]

Looks like QR code on new stamps was nothing but load of BULL then ??

[rare_treat]

Not bull. Like many companies they struggle keeping up with new implementations of technology. Even if they commissioned said technology! I’m guessing RM’s other issues with finances and staffing effects this quite a bit.

[epicurean11]

I agree that it is sensible to buy 1st class stamps before Oct 7th, as the price rises from £1.35 to £1.65 but you don't need to buy counterfeit stamps.  There are plenty of genuine sellers and you'll probably get 30% off the face value. eBay refuse to take the crooked sellers down - if you search 1st class - there are 24 different listings on the first poage alone, all of which are offering counterfeit stamps printed in China. They have nothing to do with the scanning machines, as these are all commemorative issues without barcodes mainly from 2022 with cats and dogs (2001) and fruit and veg (2003) self-adhesives. And as to how Royal Mail can tell from a scanner - they don't, they use a website listing GB stamps and take advice from Stanley Gibbons, who don't know the first thing about modern forgeries and/or selling postage. Buying from stamp dealers is honestly the best way to avoid buying counterfeit stamps - click on other items and if they're all stamps then that's a stamp dealer! If it's all postage lots plus pots and pans and little models etc they're more than likely crooks....often with 100% positive feedback, as the latest batch of counterfeits from China are good!

[louel0774_xfylgi1ouy]

I suffer from Biplolar Discorder and durning a manic phase a few months back I brought tons of these commerative stamps.

I now feel very foolish.  I have come back down to earth a bit.

What can I do about it. I still have most of them.  If they are copies they are damm good ones.

I am out of the window to send them back.  The vendors are still selling.  I am within Paypal claim time limit.

It is just jumbled in my head I don't know what to do but I am as said sat here with tons of them.

[technthread]

Find a stamp dealer near you and see if you can take some in for them to have a look at for you. 

[louel0774_xfylgi1ouy]

That is  a plan.   I have used these stamps fine.  A UV light shows the strip in the middle of them.  It just keeps niggling me they they can't be real because of the price.  Biploar mania shopping is not the best thing to do but you can't stop yourself once your in it.

If I do find these to be fake am I best to take it up with Ebay or Paypal at this point?

[technthread]

I understand I've been in a similar place.

It's shocking really how the fakes pop up at the top of a google search it is obvious they can't be real based on price. Hopefully yours are legit. 

eBay MBG is only 30 days I'm not sure about PayPal I've got a feeling they shortened the chargeback period to 180 days but it may be shorter. Someone here will know if I've got that wrong. 

[epicurean11]

It's difficult because these counterfeit stamps are pretty  good. Royal Mail said their fraud department has appointed Stanley Gibbons to assist them. Firstly Stanley Gibbons went bust and were taken over by Baldwins and regardless, Stanley Gibbons don't deal in modern postage - it's certainly not their area of expertise. The easiest way to tell is that the white borders on self-adhesive stamps are too white. The booklet stamps they sell from say Cats and Dogs are not on the right backing and you can feel the difference in weight if you have a genuine one to hand. eBay aren't interested in taking down listings but they do seem to have advised the sellers I reported that they had to remove the word 'postage' or 'good for postage', as they're not because China doesn't do printing for Royal Mail! So now they sell them as stamps, which is also illegal if you don't state that they are forgeries or counterfeit and having been in the business since 1976, I can tell you no one collects huge sheets of forgeries. Stamp dealers will be buying postage at a variety of rates from collectors and at auction but if you take an average of say 50% (plus 15% commission to the auction house) it is just not possible to sell them on eBay at between 25-35% and that's before eBay take 22% of the total. But what you will find is that the non-stamp dealers offering 10's of thousands of pounds in 'postage' are also paying top end 'promotion' listing percentages to get all their listings to the top of every page....and when you look at their sales and other items available you will see they aren't stamp dealers... they sell collectables, or bathroom products but just happen to have £50,000 of modern British stamps available.  It's a joke. Paypal will definitely refund you but you should also report the seller to eBay, as if enough people do, they'll have to take action. I can name 6 sellers on the first two pages who are all crooks with 6 to 10 different listings of 1st and 2nd class stamps but then eBay will probably shut me down.  

[sml192]

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@louel0774_xfylgi1ouy wrote:

I suffer from Biplolar Discorder and durning a manic phase a few months back I brought tons of these commerative stamps.

I now feel very foolish.  I have come back down to earth a bit.

What can I do about it. I still have most of them.  If they are copies they are damm good ones.

I am out of the window to send them back.  The vendors are still selling.  I am within Paypal claim time limit.

It is just jumbled in my head I don't know what to do but I am as said sat here with tons of them.

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Unfortunately, PayPal is now also 30 days for an 'Item not as described' claim (still 180 days for anything else).  If you funded the purchase with a debit or credit card then you have 120 days from date of purchase to file a chargeback with your card issuer. 

[stamp_hammer]

A lot of these sellers are actually the same person.

All use the same return address in Loughton, Essex.  All use the same blocked buyers list.

[tommystrezures]

Royal Mail have a new link for reporting stamp fraud, as previously mention it is a criminal offence, selling fake or forged stamps, and in some cases it is difficult to distinguish them, we have reported them but ebay seem complicit in this too and AI says no problem. There is a huge one.

We as members of the PTS have reported via this route too, as well as Royal Mail and ebay.

https://uk.core.resolver.com/#/form/d79c5f12-7206-4462-97db-134b48af3a0f/object?objectType=10699

The above link is new and it seems a little tempermental (whether its high traffic I don't' know) The Royal Mail app stamp scanner only is applicable for barcoded definitives. 

There are several good dealers within the UK, David Waldie is one who springs to mind who sell genuine postage at discounted rates.

[epicurean11]

I completely agree and would also recommend Dave Waldie if you want to guarantee getting genuine stamps produced by Royal Mail. It's a shame that the stamp trade can't come together, as a group and add weight to our complaints. It's killing anyone who needs to offer discounted postage on eBay at a fair value, which is often the only way we can clear surplus stock.

[louel0774_xfylgi1ouy]

I was having a browse around yesterday and it seems the ones selling counterfeit commerative stamps are not listing in at the moment. Wonder if they have been taken down.

[tressygirl]

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@louel0774_xfylgi1ouy wrote:

I was having a browse around yesterday and it seems the ones selling counterfeit commerative stamps are not listing in at the moment. Wonder if they have been taken down.

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If enough reports come in, and enough cases opened for item not as described,  then yes eBay take action, taking down listings,  placing sanctions on seller's account,  even placing total bans from selling.

[the_new_wigan_stamp_man]

Interesting topic but, everyone seems to have missed the rather obvious point regarding selling these fakes. eBay itself has left itself wide open to prosecution for facilitating the sale in the first place. The Law is quite clear on this. However, as normal, eBay gets away with it by just taking a few listings down. If anyone is prosecuted all they need to do is tell them where they found the listing!