Buyer claims to not received the item just to get a refund

[crazyvampire01]

So recently I sold 2 items to one buyer

The buyer in question is a very demanding woman. I say this because the 2 items, the postage and cost of the item was a total of just under £7 (cost of item and postage).

The person had asked for a total invoice, which I sent and then demand a reduced postage fee. The cost of the item was being sent to them via second class post.

When I posted the listings I knew I undercharged on the listing for the total for postage of what it would cost to send via second class. I told the buyer (being nice etc) that I would upgrade it to first class, just to be nice.

This person got rude and demanded a refund on the postage because SHE (yes it was a woman because I have the name of the person when the item sold) claimed I overcharged her. I didn't. I know because the total of the postage of both item she bought costed £4.99 and she paid £4.05.

I know she has received the item but she claims she never recieved it, even tho she paid for 2nd class postage and I was posting from London (where I live and work) to where she lives in Scotland.

She filed for a refund for the entire item. I have contacted the buyer but they have not and have refused to respond to my messages.

Anyone ever had this done to them and could advice on what to do? Especially how to contact ebay with asking this person to respond.

I know when I posted the item to this woman I told her I cannot refund her as the total cost of both items she bought was £4.99 and she paid £4.05. She clearly didn't like this as she filed for refund for the entire item and kept it and asked for refund.

I know she should have received it as I had sent another item (from a different sale) to another buyer the same day I sent hers abd both items was via second class post and the item from the second sale was received perfectly fine without any problems

[tressygirl]

' She Should have received it because another item sent the same day arrived to another buyer'.  Surely you can understand that one item arriving safely , does not mean another sent to a different part of the country will do, too.

All that matters here,   is if you have tracking or that 16 digit number at the bottom of your proof of posting,  to show delivery.

Did you use Royal Mail ?  Then,  add those numbers into RM's Track & Trace online,  to see if delivery or even attemtpted delivery was made.  If it was,  entering those numbers into any case the buyer opens,  will close the case in your favour,  and you will not have to refund.

If you do not have those all important numbers to show delivery,  you will need to refund your buyer,  then claim compensation from RM,  or the courier used,  for compensation for yourself for item lost.  Items do get lost in the post,  hence the compensation  processes in place.

[crazyvampire01]

I have been tracking it. 

The thing is, when I received the refund request, I actually reached out to the buyer but the buyer hasn'tn bothered to respond. I am suspicious of it because I suspect it is because she wanted a refund because in her eyes I overcharged her for the postage, which I didn't. She believes she was overcharged (and her words are), "I bought 2 items from you so the postage combined SHOULD BE cheaper so you overcharged me". No in the eyes of the Royal Mail/post office, they charge in accordance to the weight of the item and the combined weight of both items are still the same as if they were sent separately. I charged her £4.05 for the postage, when really I should've charged her £4.99. The original listing for both items, both had the items postage UNDERCHARGED by me, deliberately.

I have messaged her about the items asking her to comfirm if she got it. This was the other day, when she decided to request the refund, without contacting me first. She has not responded and refused to respond to my communication of double checking. I think she is refusing to respond because she feels she overcharged when she wasn't (how can she be overcharged/overpaid if she paid £4.05 for postage - which was the original postage anyway - when I should have actually charged her £4.99 for the postage so she has already "saved" 94p). So thats where my instinct is telling me the reason why she is not responding is because of this. I suspect she has recieved it because her "argument" before I sent the item was over how she feels I overcharged her!!!

The other item I sold, I gave that buyer the exact same amount of communications before and after postage to make sure item was received etc and that buyer was perfectly happy in responding and communication. The buyer for this item lives in the next city to this person that requested the refund.

My instinct tells me shes a scam and she has received the item and is wanting to recieve the refund for postage. I also know this because ebay has actually released 5p into my bank account. The 5p released was from the sale of the sale made to this person who requested the refund. Why would this buyer agree that be released at all if there was a complete problem?

The funds for the other sale (the one that was NOT a problem) was released when it was confirmed that person received the item.

[tressygirl]

You have been tracking it.

Has tracking shown delivery or even attempted delivery?

If it has,  then you will not have to refund,  enter those numbers into any cae the buyer opens,  it will close the case in your favour.

No need to send messages asking if they have received the item,  it's tracking to show that it has,  that is what is important here.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

You are very much over thinking this and getting far to personally involved.

It doesn't matter what the actual cost of postage was, or what you charged the customer.

They agreed to it, when completing the sale.

But as has already been said, if you have tracking and it shows as delivered, put the information in the case and forget about it.  You will win the case.

Then get the buyers details and simply block them from further purchases.

If you don't have tracking, you are going to lose out.  It's as simple as that.

[crazyvampire01]

The thing is I have the receipt but I've spilt a coffee over the tracking number at work which has obscured the tracking, yes I had the receipt at work as I posted on the way into work and it came out when I unpacked my stuff at work etc. It's hard to tell it's tracking because of the spill.

[arkwebus]

 I've spilt a coffee over the tracking number at work 

Oh dear.  Unless you can - in some way - get the number you must refund in full and take more care in future!

Most sellers keep the tracked receipts for more than 6 months. 

It is pointless, I'm afraid, to "reach out" to the buyer.  EBay's systems are strict.  If the buyer opens a non receipt case then - whatever you may think is fair - you must refund through the case within 3 days.  If you do so you without any delay you will get your eBay fees back.  @crazyvampire01 

[crazyvampire01]

That's the part that is a slight issue. I say this because she paid £4.05 for the postage but the refund she is claiming is for every penny she paid for the entire package even with the receipt is there a way to provide eBay with that receipt to show I posted etc. 

It is strange that eBay released a little bit of the funds from the sell but not all of it. 

Is there a way to privately contact eBay with it for them to review the receipts as she's claiming a refund of the item not received. It's annoying that she's going by the ESTIMATED delivery date provided by eBay but not waited a little longer just incase as she lives in Scotland and I live in London, so you can imagine my annoyance with this.

Besides I have the receipt. I wonder how to upload it to eBay for them to review. Is there a way of doing it privately to eBay of course so they can see that evidence so it isn't exactly a "non receipt" when I have the receipt. 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

When you have to refund something, you have to refund the cost of the item and the postage charged.

This does not necessarily reflect the cost of the actual postage.

So if you charged the buyer £5 for the item and £2 for the postage, you make a refund of £7.

It doesn't matter that the actual postage may have only cost £1.50.

These are not just Ebay rules, they are a legal requirement.

Also, if you have previously entered the tracking number into the tracker online, then you may still have it in your history.  It's worth a search.

But your trying to wangle out of something that you really have no choice about.

You either prove the item was delivered, or you refund it.  That is it, it's that cut and dried.

In other words, without the tracking, you simply don't have a leg to stand on.

[crazyvampire01]

Yes. I have.

I just double checked the information too. Because the buyer bought two items (from 2 separate sale) I had on sale and I put both items in the SAME parcel/package. But the person is only claiming a refund on one of the sale.

So clearly they received it because both sale item she bought was put in the same bag/package/parcel whatever you want to call it.

So I hardly think she did not receive it. Because if she didn't receive it why not claim refund for the other item bought.

I wish I made a video of me packaging both items she bought from me into one package. But I didn't realise at the time she would claim it wasn't posted etc. See why I think this is odd now? Both items she bought was put in the same package/parcel/bag (whatever you want to call it) but only one was claimed as not received. Thats why my instinct tells me it was because she wanted the postage refunded

[therenewalworkshopltd]

It really doesn't matter whether they did or did not receive it at this point.

Was it two separate sales and treated as such, or did you provide an invoice and combine the costs into one sale?

If the first, you are going to lose out.

If the second and you can find the tracking number, then you will be ok.

However, unless you have provided them with the two items on a combined invoice for the postage, then you should have sent them separately.  

You need to remove your personal thoughts from this.  It is annoying I know, but you just work within the rules and you will win some and lose some.

[crazyvampire01]

Ok

1) It was TWO separate sales. Both items ended at the same time and same day, within minute or two of each other ending.

2) The seller did ask for an invoice to be provided of BOTH item put together, which I did provide an invoice for. The total sale (for both items) was £2.69 and postage for BOTH was £4.05, with the final invoice (before ebay seller fees etc) of £6.74 (so around half that if both items was paid/invoiced separately etc but it wasn't)

3) When I invoiced her she was not happy with the postage because she did not like that the postage was "not cheaper" but it was done by weight which ofc would not get cheaper, except it all went into one package/parcel instead of 2. At the time she complained I offered her an upgrade from the second class postage she paid to first class at no extra charge. 

4) The total cost, the post office charged me for the parel was £4.99, which is why I think she is claiming the refund because she claims and insist I overcharged her on the postage. Yes it is not important in terms of the ebay claims for buyer/seller protection etc, I get it don't get me wrong, but this is what my instinct is telling me thats why she is claiming it hence why I mentioned it.

5) It was all put in one parcel/package but she recieved one of the two items but both items was in the same package so why not claim refund on non delivery of both package instead of only one. But ebay have withheld the full fees except for a few pennies from the sale, which is why (and to use that phrase) "I smell a rat" with it.

Yes both sale was invoiced together and put in the same package and she claims one was never received but not claimed refund for the other. but the amount she wants is the postage of £4.05 but ebay withheld the full sale amount from both items.

I've looked and checked the sale and refund she done on it and it is very odd to me

[therenewalworkshopltd]

If your going to post things like this, then I would suggest that in future, you at least buy through Ebay.

It is cheaper anyway.

But as long as you created a single parcel via ebay, then you need to tell them this, when you defend/appeal your case.  The very fact that one item out of a single parcel has been received, goes in your favour.

But it still boils down to the tracking reference, no getting around it I'm afraid.

FYI, Ebay generally hold the proceeds, when a case is opened.  Until it has been resolved.

As to the postage, the buyer is only entitled to what was charged.  Nothing more, nothing less.

And in this instance, if it's a joint sale, then half of postage cost charged is valid.

But don't stress yourself out over it.  This is just one of those things that selling online entails.

[m25jet]

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@crazyvampire01 wrote:

 I just double checked the information too. Because the buyer bought two items (from 2 separate sale) I had on sale and I put both items in the SAME parcel/package. But the person is only claiming a refund on one of the sale.

---

I understand from reading this thread that this buyer is proving to be somewhat troublesome.  However, have a read of the text that I highlighted in red.  If the buyer purchased each item separately, as opposed to putting each item in her basket and paying for both of them in one go at Checkout, then as far as eBay is concerned these transactions count as two separate sales.  If the items were purchased as two separate sales then each item should have been sent out separately so that you ended up with two separate tracking numbers, one per transaction, which you should have added against the relevant transactions as soon as possible after posting them out.  If you had done that it would have enabled you to prove successful delivery of both items, thus blowing the buyer's allegations of non-receipt right out of the water and resulting in eBay closing the case in your favour.

Unfortunately, as you state yourself, you posted both items out in the same package.  This is never a good idea, as unless you are dealing with a completely honest buyer you could end up getting screwed.  The buyer more than likely knows this full well and has opened an Item Not Received case upon receiving the parcel as she knows that she can screw you over for a refund given that you cannot provide two separate tracking numbers to prove successful delivery.  In this case, given that you do not have a tracking number for the second item and said that you spilled your coffee all over the receipt for the item that you did send via a tracked service, it looks to me as though you will have to refund the buyer in full.  If you don't then if the buyer escalates the matter to eBay in order to force a refund she'll get a total refund of everything she paid and your account will be hit with a damaging defect.

In the event that the buyer leaves negative feedback in relation to the transactions you will also receive another two defects on your account, one for each item.  This is a nightmare scenario that could have been avoided had you sent each item individually and uploaded the tracking number for each item as soon as possible after they had been posted out.

In view of the above the best option now is to take a damage limitation approach.  Refund the buyer in full before she has the chance to ask eBay to step in and force the refund, then once you have done that add her User ID to your Blocked Bidders List if you have not already done so in order to prevent her from purchasing anything else from you in the future and causing you any further aggravation.

[crazyvampire01]

I'd say I'm more annoyed then stressed with it, because it seems very odd to make the claim for one item not being received when it's invoiced together and posted together in the same parcel/package thing and the amount requested for refund was what she (the buyer) was complaining that it wasn't cheaper postage etc. 

I know I messaged the buyer because at the time I messaged her I thought of a solution but wanted to see if she would at least communicate to try for a resolution but no response, which makes me think she's doing it to make a refund claim for the postage that she had already brought to my attention before I posted, which I now think the reason she has gone radio silent in responding was because she knew she was going to do this and prob why she rejected my offer of upgrading it from second class post (the original sending method for both items) to first class post at no extra cost and insisted I posted via the original second class postage stated on the sale, prob so she can claim a refund and then not respond to make me look like the bad person.

I'm just trying to figure out how to open a case with eBay with it and how to go about it as I'm not very technical and I rarely sell anything on eBay and I probably sell once every 10 years or something so I'm not so technical with eBay sale stuff etc.

But eBay's sending me emails to remind me to resolve the case but I just not sure how to sort out a counter case for it being invoiced together and then put into the same package. 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

There is already a case open.  You cannot open a new one.

You have to respond to that one and as has been said above, your only real option here is to refund.

[sml192]

There is no counter case that you can open. 

As it stands you cannot prove delivery or attempted delivery of either item without the tracking.   The fact that the buyer has only claimed for one item doesn't prove anything either as thay may not realise that they need to open separate claims for each item given that they paid for them together.

If you don't respond to the case within 3 business days then the buyer will be able to escalate to eBay. 

[crazyvampire01]

Well I put them in the same parcel, because as I stated previously it was 2 sales but she had messaged me for a final invoice for both items, which I had sent (the final invoice for both sales to) her, which was why I put them in the same package/parcel. So I did not think (at the time) too much of sticking both of it into the same package when sending it to her and that was definitely cheaper in terms of not having to buy 2 separate package for the 2 items.

If she leaves negative feedback, do you know what? I already drafted a reply in my head incase of that negative response of "she complained in private message it was not cheaper postage then claimed refund when I said offered her a solution of upgrading it from the original listing that stated second class postage to first class which she rejected, just so she could claim refund on the postage, then claimed refund that I never posted when I posted both items she bought from me in the same parcel"

One negative review out of what? The almost 100 buys/sells I had done in 10 years of this account? Do you know what 1 negative isn't going to damage that anyway.

The reciept would show the £4.99 I spent on postage which was for the cost of the package and the cost of the post for both items. The coffee (what can I say, bring out my work lanyard to log into my work computer the receipt came out with that and ended up with coffee smudged on it) was only covering the tracking, as that is the only thing smudged but not the rest of the receipt, which it (the coffee) DOES NOT cover the date and time and cost of the postage of the item. But whether ebay would allow it because it costed £4.99 and I charged her £4.05, I guess I can argue that to ebay that ebay can look at the private messages that she demanded a cheaper postage and then demanded the refund and I can show ebay of "look at the sale of the 2 items, I already had reduced the cost of the postage in the ORIGNAL sale of both items and even in the final invoice it was damn right still cheaper than what the post office charged me" so her discount was already "secretly" done in the original sale.

I just need to figure out how to give a picture of this receipt to ebay to show it to them. Anyone know how to do that? I'm not so technical so anyone able to direct me to how to send ebay this picture proof?

[sml192]

If the tracking on the receipt is no longer legible then it will be of no use to eBay as they require proof of delivery not proof of posting. 

If you do end up receiving negative feedback then you need to be careful how you reply as it can end up saying more about than the person it's directed at - keep it polite, factual and to the point. 

[m25jet]

If you still have the receipt that got coffee spilled all over it take a photo of it and upload the shot of the receipt to the case, along with something along the lines of "I have included a shot of the receipt that I received from the Post Office when I posted out the item."  If the photo shows the tracking number clearly enough then if somebody at eBay can read it then they may well put a trace on the tracking number to ascertain as to whether the item was successfully delivered or not.  If, however, the tracking number does not appear to be legible in the photo then do your best to decipher what it said before it got coffee spilled all over it and type the tracking number into the case manually.  So long as eBay get hold of that tracking number and it proves that the parcel was successfully delivered to the address that the buyer gave you at Checkout you would win the case.  Under those circumstances you would not get a defect and if the buyer were to leave you any negative feedback prior to eBay closing the case in your favour then if you were to contact eBay and ask for the negative feedback to be removed, saying that it should not be allowed to remain given that they decided the case in your favour, then they would more than likely remove the negative feedback from your account, as well as the associated defect for each negative comment.

In the event that you cannot provide eBay with the tracking number then your best option is to take the damage limitation option that I spoke about earlier, which would entail refunding the buyer in full before she can ask eBay to step in and force the refund.  If the buyer had to ask eBay to step in and force the refund then that would be far more damaging to your account than if you were to just issue a full refund before the buyer had the opportunity to escalate the case to eBay.

Whatever the final outcome of the case, make sure that you put that buyer on your Blocked Bidders List.  From what you've said she sounds like trouble, and you certainly don't want her coming back again.