What's your answer to this?

[cee-dee]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/calais-migrants-face-catastrophe-153936990.html#3RP7sMo

The situation can't go on?

Not only can the stowaway situation there not continue, the constant flow of people trying to get to Europe and/or Britain cannot continue either.

Those people should be told that there's nothing for them except a life in a refugee camp. They can't become a "normal" member of society in their target country because they can't speak the language and those that get here (legally or illegally) don't seem to want to bother to learn either. They can't do anything useful except work that's already over subscribed so their only work is going to be an exploited modern form of slavery.

They're looking for a short-cut to a way of life that's taken a couple of thousand years to achieve and they're many centuries behind.

It's high time they were "educated" about the facts of illegal immigration and shown what has happened to many who went before them and all efforts should be made to dissuade and/or prevent them starting out in the first place rather than dealing with them en route or at their destination.

[bookhunter2007]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

As a side note to this general discussion I find it ironic that at the same time as worrying over the poor and the unskilled trying to get into our country we are welcoming, (encouraging), the rich and the doctors, nurses, scientists, engineers and other professionals with open arms.

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You can scrap nurses off that list.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/new-migrant-rules-will-cost-nhs-thousands-of-nurses-sa...

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/health/foreign_nurses_visas-45855

So we end up with an NHS staff shortfall, increased costs for training to fill that shortfall, and wasted millions on recruitment....

*slowhandclap* for the Kippers and co.

[cee-dee]

That's not what it's like for the many who don't speak English and have no skills.

Like I asked earlier, why are thousands of illegals trying to cross the Channel to a very small, foreign country with a far colder, wetter and (for them) inhospitable climate than their country of origin? They've left the country in which they claim to be at risk, they've travelled through several "safe" countries so why do they want to trek all the way here if not for economic reasons?

Unfortunately, not many of the interviews with migrants are available on the net and even if they were, no doubt some (who don't agree) would claim they were unrepresentative of what they claim is the majority view.

Again, the question was what to do with the migrant situation as it exists now?

[bookhunter2007]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Like I asked earlier, why are thousands of illegals trying to cross the Channel to a very small, foreign country with a far colder, wetter and (for them) inhospitable climate than their country of origin?

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That's Poe's Law territory.

Did you miss the part about the drought in Syria?

http://www.ibtimes.com/syrian-drought-triggered-man-made-climate-change-spurred-civil-war-study-1833...

I'm sure Syrian farmers would have loved our "inhospitable" precipitation levels

[cee-dee]

The link there makes claims of "man made drought" but (as you constantly demand) gives no evidence for it.

I suppose the American/Canadian Dust Bowl of the thirties was "man made drought" too?

[suzieseaside]

Not a good example.  The areas concerned get little rainfall, are prone to high winds and periodic droughts - naturally.

The 'Dust Bowl' was man-made in that it was the result of inappropriate intensive and expansive farming practices for the region, and it wouldn't have happened under natural grass cover.  Instead thousands of square miles of dry top soil was left exposed to the high winds.

But, oops, we are off topic again.

[astrologica]

In answer to your question, CeeDee, as to why these people want to come here, most of them are young men. They come from countries where National Service is mandatory, and they don't want to fight. Yes....there are other European countries that don't have National Service, but combined with the other pull factors, the UK is seen as their favoured destination. Maybe we should announce five years compulsory National Service for all young men!
In answer to the original question, any that are found to be 'paperless', having destroyed any personal documents they might have had, should be taken back to Syria, so that they can find their own way home. Any that do have papers should be looked at with a view to granting asylum. But they should be taken home first. I see that the EU has announced that they will distribute 40,000 over the next two years. That is just going to encourage more and more to leave Africa. And how many of those will be terrorists?
And, incidentally, Malacandran has made a very very good point with his earlier post about a New World Order. All this is part of a grand plan to abolish Nations and borders.
And seeing Mr Cameron posturing in Brussels....well...he is wasting his time. As Mr Tusk said this morning, the basic fundamental rules of the EU are not for sale...non-negotiable. Just a suggestion in answer to the OP. Over to you Mr BH...go on...find some more tiresome links to prove me wrong. A constructive suggestion would be nice for a change. I don't think you have made one yet?

[electric*mayhem*band]

Blinded by another plethora of Google information posted by the Linkfinder General to try and verify and justify his rhetoric, thrown up like a cat and a fur ball. These, whether from the upper echelons of the intellectul brigade, or the Fleet Street hacks, are no more than somebody else's theories. He appears to pooh-pooh every one else on here with a dismisive and cursory wave of the hand, while also appearing to know better.

Are you BH, an authority on immigrants and immigration ? You've said you are familiar with one immigrant, does that make you some kind of expert ?

[bookhunter2007]

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@electric*mayhem*band wrote:

Are you BH, an authority on immigrants and immigration ? You've said you are familiar with one immigrant, does that make you some kind of expert ?

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I wouldn't say expert, but rest assured, the RT brainiacs have now convinced me of their coherent arguments and solid evidence they've linked to back-up their points. I mean, who needs to read-up on issues when we can just take the word of folks who watch telly and read tabloids as gospel?

I am now convinced people emigrate from Syria because of benefits in the UK, rather than it being a drought-ridden warzone where political executions and torture are rife.

I am now convinced people emigrate from Eritrea because of benefits in the UK, rather than it being an authoritarian hellhole where political executions and torture are rife.

I am now convinced people emigrate from Afghanistan because of benefits in the UK, rather than it being a warzone where political executions and torture are rife.

I am now convinced dropping a few DVD of very cross Daily Express readers telling migrants they are "not wanted in the UK" into the aforementioned countries will be an excellent deterrent for people wishing to escape war, famine, imprisonment, and torture

I am now convinced Islam and the Pope are the primary drivers of climate change...Actually, scrap that, man-made Climate Change doesn't exist.

I am now convinced years of academic work in various fields is gibberish on account of watching a Christian fundamentalist in a youtube video rant on about a "New World Order".

Happy?

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@astrologica wrote:
 Over to you Mr BH...go on...find some more tiresome links to prove me wrong. A constructive suggestion would be nice for a change. I don't think you have made one yet?

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You asked me that before. I replied, and then you kinda 'disappeared':

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/The-Round-Table/What-s-your-answer-to-this/m-p/4292334#M157835

[astrologica]

There are no constructive suggestions in your reply as to what YOU would do with the present wave of migrants.
Christian Fundamentalists....who mentioned those? And no-one disputes those reasons that you give for these people leaving their country of origin.....it's the reasons they want to come here that are under discussion.
And yes....I did have to 'disappear ' for a short while...I have responsibilities that mean that I am not on here for long at any one time.

[cee-dee]

The cause of the actual dust was due to farming but the drought was not. If the land hadn't been farmed, the drought would still have happened so, I ask again, was the cause of the dust-bowl drought man made? Who says? Why so?

No suggestions about what to do with the migrants?

[bookhunter2007]

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@astrologica wrote:
There are no constructive suggestions in your reply as to what YOU would do with the present wave of migrants.

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By reducing or ideally eliminating what drives them here in the first place.  There's not much point pouring £££ millions into a never-ending game of political "Whack-a-mole".

As for migrants already here. Genuine asylum cases we should accept, scammers can do one. A resettlement treaty & financial incentives with stable states would be a good move imo. If you think the UK is facing a crisis, that's nothing compared to what Italy & Greece have to contend with. Nor already impoverished countries neighbouring the countries being fled. That's how entire regions become destabalised. e.g Iraq > Syria

One of the highest priorities has to be targeting people traffickers.  I'm surprised the people traffickers don't pay commissions to folks to go around the internet spreading myths illegal immigrants get a free house & benefits if they land in the UK.

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@astrologica wrote:
Christian Fundamentalists....who mentioned those?

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The religious right in the States is where the whole "New World Order" theory stems from.  They're the same lot who push the political idea of using "immigration" and cultural anxieties to get us p lebs worked up so they don't notice other things. Kinda convenient the Northern Powerhouse rail link getting vetoed slipped under the radar yesterday hey?

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@astrologica wrote:
.it's the reasons they want to come here that are under discussion.

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Vague baseless rants about "benefits" are not really a "discussion".

Anyway, would I be right in thinking you'd be happy with this idea to stem the flow?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/13/un-fears-eu-secret-eritrea-deals-close-border

[electric*mayhem*band]

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@bookhunter2007 wrote:

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Vague baseless rants about "benefits" are not really a "discussion".

Anyway, would I be right in thinking you'd be happy with this idea to stem the flow?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/13/un-fears-eu-secret-eritrea-deals-close-border

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More dismissive verbosity.  *shakes head*

And whoopsie-do, another searched for link, this time from the Guardian. Never fails, does he ?

*over and out*

[merehazle]

Hello embs.

Well...I think he (and they) do protest far, far too much.

Tony Blair was warned that '' he was opening the gates of Hell'' when he invaded Iraq with George Bush against all advice.....he should have the humility to accept that he is a disaster of epic proportions and ISIS is down to him and Bush.

In fact what isn't down to Blair and Bush?

Blair and Bush and many others will have high security of course. We wont. 

Google these words  ''Robin Cook's Resignation Speech'' (10 mins). The whole house applauded him. And millions came out on our streets to protest against the war.  And yet the war went ahead.   

The weapons of mass destruction were Blair and Bush.

Back tomorrow. er....probably

[suzieseaside]

I can't see anything wrong with that link, it describes what some EU Government officials are supposedly doing in Eritrea to try to stop the immigration at source and/or (Norway) send the migrants back.

Whatever 'solutions' might be considered in future, Britain is going to have to take their fair share of the current problem.

In future, I have no idea how one might stem the tide of immigration to and through Europe.  If the solution was obvious, it would be put in place presumably.  One possibility might be to force everyone in UK to carry ID cards linked to other computer info, National Insurance No. etc,. and to make it known abroad that anyone here can be stopped at any time and if they are here illegally they will be put in detention centres and deported.  Compulsory ID cards are something I have always been dead against; it's seems to me that it would be a huge infringment of our civil liberties and takes us further towards being a Police State. Or is it any more of an infringment of our civil liberties than, say, our driving licences which have our addresses on?

Not something I would want, and I don't know if it would deter illegal immigrants anyway. There would be a financial cost to us all no doubt as well as other non-financial 'costs'.  Whatever the solution, if there is one, there is no freedom lunch for us.

[suzieseaside]

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@merehazle wrote:

Hello embs.

Well...I think he (and they) do protest far, far too much.

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"He and they"  whoever they are - Protest far, far too much about what, exactly?  Care to clarify?

Pots and kettles.  Seems to me there's a few on here who just post to have a sarcastic personal dig at others who at least have offered some thoughts and comments about the issue. 

You don't have to agree with people, but more of that and the mods will undoubtedly intervene

[malacandran]

I'm just looking at this thread, and admiring many of the points made. However this thought occurs - what's it got to do with eBay?

I mean surely eBay is an on-line market-place.  As such, it exists for the purpose for trading - ie, the buying and selling of goods.

So it doesn't really need people on it,  who go on about politics, philosophy, religion and other non-trading related subjects.

That's why I can't see the reason why eBay allows the continued presence of the "Round Table".  The forum is entertaining, contentious, and sometimes provides valuable new insights.

But then so did the old superbly combative "Q & A" Board, and the more mellow "Nag's Head", and they were both done away with.

Why then, does the "Round Table" still carry on - will it last much longer, do you think?

[cee-dee]

There are many forums dedicated to ebay matters and others for members to interact and discuss things. This is one of the latter.

Some of the old forums were "done away with" due to a particular high handed vested interest in so doing. (fathom that one out??)

[malacandran]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Some of the old forums were "done away with" due to a particular high handed vested interest in so doing. (fathom that one out??)

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I fathom, that those forums gave the Mods so much trouble every night, that the Mods said "Get rid of them, or we quit"

[blackburn_stevie]

To keep the discussion on track, there is no such thing as they are a "legal immigrants" parked in tents in Calais. To be fair about it in all terms of the word, they are all "ILLEGAL". Let's look at a few facts. To be a genuine Asylum seeker, you need to report your condition at the first available country outside your own country. Anybody that tries to make you think that Calais was the first port of call outside Syria, Afghanistan or Iraq etc is living in a dream world. Even if they arrived in France by lorry, they must have arrived at some point on the far side, somewhere like Italy/French border. Because of all these and many more reasons, it's obvious that only 2 or 3% of these people are actually asylum seekers, if that. So what do we do with the rest of them that are trying to get into the country by breaking into lorries etc. Simple, we arrest them. Once arrested, they get taken over to England and moved into a prison area that has been especially built for them. If a country of origin can be found, they get taken back by the ship load, Carefully locked up for the duration of the country, naturally. Those for whom a country of origin can't be found, should be kept in prison for at least 5 years.

These 5 years would not include any costs for electricity bills. That is just because there is no electric. Not just for a simple TV or a radio. But simply because there is no electric in the cells. None at all. During the 5 years, they can be taught things like, English and a multitude of other subjects for which a degree is available at the end. By this time, they have shown a decent and honest frame of mind and could be let back into the country ............. UNDER SUPERVISION, OF COURSE.

That's how we work it out. It won't be cheap, but neither is any way of solving the problem as it stands right now.

But here's the bad thing about it all.

Which politician is going to put forward such an idea when voting is due for the next 4 years or so. In fact, which politician would put forwards such an idea when it could mean the end of his or her career for a few years. I mean, who ever heard of a politician that gave more thought for the good of the country than of himself.

I rest my case.

[upthecreekyetagain]

..... and how would that suggestion Stevie make the UK a better place to live in than it is now?

Firstly - theire is NO obligation on a refugee to claim asylum in the first 'safe' country they are able to do so.  There is an agreement amongst many nations however that the first safe country a refugee had been able to claim asylum in is responsible for that persons welfare. 

The idea that we could 'kidnap' individuals who commit a crime in another country and forcibly bring them to the UK and imprison them for long periods is quite frankly abhorrent!