What's your answer to this?

[cee-dee]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/calais-migrants-face-catastrophe-153936990.html#3RP7sMo

The situation can't go on?

Not only can the stowaway situation there not continue, the constant flow of people trying to get to Europe and/or Britain cannot continue either.

Those people should be told that there's nothing for them except a life in a refugee camp. They can't become a "normal" member of society in their target country because they can't speak the language and those that get here (legally or illegally) don't seem to want to bother to learn either. They can't do anything useful except work that's already over subscribed so their only work is going to be an exploited modern form of slavery.

They're looking for a short-cut to a way of life that's taken a couple of thousand years to achieve and they're many centuries behind.

It's high time they were "educated" about the facts of illegal immigration and shown what has happened to many who went before them and all efforts should be made to dissuade and/or prevent them starting out in the first place rather than dealing with them en route or at their destination.

[astrologica]

Suzie...I think ID cards are actually a very good idea. I have never had any problem with them. I take the view that if you have nothing to hide, then why object. It would help to root out some of those illegals already here.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@astrologica wrote:
Suzie...I think ID cards are actually a very good idea. I have never had any problem with them. I take the view that if you have nothing to hide, then why object. It would help to root out some of those illegals already here.

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ID cards are a different subject but how many of those in favour would be happy with a law that insisted you keep your curtains open and the lights on - after all, "if you have nothing to hide then why object".

[cee-dee]

Oh come on, you're stretching things to the point of absurdity with that.

There's no comparison between carying an ID card and leaving your curtains open with the lights on.

What next? Leave to door open or have no doors at all?

[suzieseaside]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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@astrologica wrote:
Suzie...I think ID cards are actually a very good idea. I have never had any problem with them. I take the view that if you have nothing to hide, then why object. It would help to root out some of those illegals already here.

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ID cards are a different subject but how many of those in favour would be happy with a law that insisted you keep your curtains open and the lights on - after all, "if you have nothing to hide then why object".

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Bit extreme creeky.  There are enough burglars, perverts and nosy neighbours about without encouraging them!

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@suzieseaside wrote:

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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@astrologica wrote:
Suzie...I think ID cards are actually a very good idea. I have never had any problem with them. I take the view that if you have nothing to hide, then why object. It would help to root out some of those illegals already here.

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ID cards are a different subject but how many of those in favour would be happy with a law that insisted you keep your curtains open and the lights on - after all, "if you have nothing to hide then why object".

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Bit extreme creeky.  There are enough burglars, perverts and nosy neighbours about without encouraging them!

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Maybe it is a bit extreme but so are the practicalities of an ID card.

So you pop out to the shops and leave your card behind.  At the local supermarket there is a random spot check - would you be happy being taken to the local police station, fingerprints and DNA sample taken and detained until your ID was confirmed. 

Ultimately it would come to this sort of scenario because without checks on ID there would be no point in ID cards and if failing to have your card with you didn't result in detention then those without a card would never be caught.

[suzieseaside]

I agree that there would be practical difficulties and as I said before I am not really in favour of compulsory ID cards and random checks.  I never liked the Sus Law when I was a student - I was stopped and searched in London just because I was young/a student and might have weed on me.  Big Brother is already here in some respects.

I am just wracking my brains as to what might help deter those economic migrants who come here because they think it's an easy life.   Maybe some sort of ID card to be produced on claiming benefits or getting employment, that is hard to fake - I dunno.

There will still be forgeries, and inadequate checks.  At least 3 illegal immigrants have been employed in the House of Commons, causing some red faces in Government.

Not necessarily a professional forger job either - 'Adeyemi Zubairu, from war torn Sierra Leone, slipped through supposedly high-level security checks at the Houses of Parliament by crudely gluing her own photograph in to a Swedish passport.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11327125/Probe-into-security-breach-after-illegal...

[fallen-archie]

We don't appear to be getting anywhere in this discussion and the only clear fact is that our opinions seem poles apart. Yesterdays attack in Tunisia will fuel fear in those who want a closed door policy, the other two incidents in france and Kuwait will further Isolate Muslims and make it more difficult for those who support taking more migrants. A couple of days ago it was reported that Britains population had risen to 64.4m. There is a wave of house building goining on but critics want more we are fast trying to put a pint in a half pint pot. A group of stowaways from Calais have been discovered hiding on a school coach as they desperately seek more inventive ways of gatecrashing the party.  And so it goes on. While the likes of Tunisia will slip into recession because one of it's own wanted to go to paradise. Dont we all?

[malacandran]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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how many of those in favour would be happy with a law that insisted you keep your curtains open and the lights on - after all, "if you have nothing to hide then why object".

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Actually, quite a few people like keeping the curtains open and the lights on.  You can see it, when you go down a street.

[malacandran]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

We don't appear to be getting anywhere in this discussion and the only clear fact is that our opinions seem poles apart. Yesterdays attack in Tunisia will fuel fear in those who want a closed door policy, the other two incidents in france and Kuwait will further Isolate Muslims and make it more difficult for those who support taking more migrants. A couple of days ago it was reported that Britains population had risen to 64.4m. There is a wave of house building goining on but critics want more we are fast trying to put a pint in a half pint pot. A group of stowaways from Calais have been discovered hiding on a school coach as they desperately seek more inventive ways of gatecrashing the party.  And so it goes on. While the likes of Tunisia will slip into recession because one of it's own wanted to go to paradise. Dont we all?

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Nothing we can do.  The Lefties are in full control.  They will keep letting in illegal immigrants, until the UK is destroyed.

This seems obvious to sensible people, such as you and me.

However most people aren't sensible.  They're well-meaning, and nice.  But they watch their tellies, and get taken in by all the guff.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

We don't appear to be getting anywhere in this discussion and the only clear fact is that our opinions seem poles apart. Yesterdays attack in Tunisia will fuel fear in those who want a closed door policy, the other two incidents in france and Kuwait will further Isolate Muslims and make it more difficult for those who support taking more migrants. A couple of days ago it was reported that Britains population had risen to 64.4m. There is a wave of house building goining on but critics want more we are fast trying to put a pint in a half pint pot. A group of stowaways from Calais have been discovered hiding on a school coach as they desperately seek more inventive ways of gatecrashing the party.  And so it goes on. While the likes of Tunisia will slip into recession because one of it's own wanted to go to paradise. Dont we all?

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The only answer I can see is that we can't stop migration - unless we are willing to accept severe limits on our civil liberties as well as seeing more and more of the 'taxation pot' being spent on trying to enforce a closed door policy.

History has shown that large economic growth follows large increases in population - maybe what we should be doing is putting more resources into managing migration and growing the infrastructure.  In other words try to take advantage of the benefits of migration rather than fighting the disadvantages.

[bookhunter2007]

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@malacandran wrote:

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But they watch their tellies, and get taken in by all the guff.

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I agree, but probably not in the way you're thinking. You might want to read post #97 again.

Besides:

"British attitudes to immigration are increasingly split: well educated, economically and socially advantaged groups are more pro-immigration. The grading is quite clear. Sixty-per cent of graduates think immigration has been good for Britain, the figure drops to 32% for those whose highest qualification is at A-level or equivalent, and just 17% for those with no qualifications.

People who live in London, or know a few migrants, are more pro-immigration. Those who are more aware of policies and people's reasons for immigrating are more pro-immigration.

The further away you are from the impact of immigration the more anti-immigration you tend to be. People who are anti-immigration tend to have views which are furthest away from reality – either in terms of economic performance, current policy or migrant behaviour."

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/06/17/the-fewer-immigrants-you-know-the-more-you-ll-fear-them

It seems this thread is par for the course.

And since when have the Tories been "lefties"?

[malacandran]

The "benefits" of migration?

What are they, for the UK?   I can't see any "benefits".  Inward migration from Third-World and Islamic countries, seems to cause nothing but trouble to us.

How does it benefit the British people?

[fallen-archie]

I have heard others suggest that and to say that this would bring economic benefits too. I would be interested to know what those beneifits are? 

If tere were a referendum tomorrow and the question said should we continue to allow our population to grow at the present rate Yes or No I wonder how many would say yes an what they would need to be convinced it was the right way forward.

[malacandran]

@ bookhunter's post,  thanks, I read the link you kindly provided, but doesn't it only show that some well-paid people have lost a sense of reality, about how our country is being destroyed. 

[bookhunter2007]

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@malacandran wrote:

The "benefits" of migration?

What are they, for the UK?   I can't see any "benefits".  Inward migration from Third-World and Islamic countries, seems to cause nothing but trouble to us.

How does it benefit the British people?

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For starters, the NHS would go into meltdown without migrants. See my earlier post about nurses.

Without migrants, we'd also be facing an even bigger crisis with regards to the ageing population and how to fund their welfare in old age. If anything, the problem in the West is not "too many immigrants" - it's too many old people.

Have you actually ever met a "forrin" or a Muslim?

[fallen-archie]

Yet more statistical garbage, the fact is those who are better off do have more to gain from growth and have the mobiity to move elsewhere as and when they wish. Many graduates regardless of background adjust to the climate of wealth readily and many never feel they have enough, enter greed and enter the I'm allright attitude. Less well off people are the ones with the most to lose. 

[bookhunter2007]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

Yet more statistical garbage, the fact is those who are better off do have more to gain from growth and have the mobiity to move elsewhere as and when they wish. Many graduates regardless of background adjust to the climate of wealth readily and many never feel they have enough, enter greed and enter the I'm allright attitude. Less well off people are the ones with the most to lose. 

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A fact is a fact. An assumption is not a fact.

Just because someone is a graduate, it doesn't always automatically equate to wealth - although it usually helps.

Clacton is the UKIP capital - full of pensioners with limited education, but barely any immigrants.

[malacandran]

It seems clear that the British people don't actually want mass-immigration into our country.

But we're being forced to put up with it. 

I don't want to say anything further on this subject.  

[bookhunter2007]

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@malacandran wrote:

It seems clear that the British people don't actually want mass-immigration into our country.

But we're being forced to put up with it. 

I don't want to say anything further on this subject.  

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Okay. Well the good news for you is over 3000 "forrin" nurses are due to be kicked out the country.

The bad news is you might be waiting quite a bit longer for someone to cater for your health in a few years time.

Besides, even if every single "forrin" or Muslim was mass-deported, which folk devil would you complain about next?

The angry mob kicking-off about "forrins"/Huguenots/Irish/Jews/Blacks really is nothing new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_May_Day

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Riots

http://www.newstatesman.com/2012/05/britains-last-anti-jewish-riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Notting_Hill_race_riots

[fallen-archie]

Since when did Clacton have the honour of being the benchmark for the feelings/voting intentions of UK Pensioners Or is that another Fact you made up to further the cause? I am dissappointed that you feel pensioners are so inferior and poorly educated it is a highly inflammatory statement and frankly irrelevent. As for your earlier statement about the NHS going into meltdown that statement is riddled with inaccuracies other than the number of nursing staff currently employed from overseas which I don't see people complaining about.