Signed for Delivery Item Allegedly Stolen

[i11uminatus]

Hi,

I am a private seller and recently sold a new, sealed MacBook Pro.

It was delivered by Special Delivery, and signed for.

60 hours later the buyer has asked for a refund 'Doesn't match description or photos:Hello, I purchase MacBook Pro I notice it was lighter than the usual. As I open it I realise it was only a cable inside without the actual device. Not sure if this is a transit error or seller mistake hence why I’m reaching out to clarify this. ' and sent a video showing an open and empty box.

Obviously the laptop was there when I sent it, and the weight is confirmed on the Post Office receipt.

The buyer has been v reluctant to communicate, has not replied to any of my questions (who signed for it, was the packaging damaged upon delivery etc), so I suspect it is a fraudulent claim.

I have submitted a claim to Royal Mail, but they take 30 days to respond.

What is my best course of action?

Please help( Thanks. 

[i11uminatus]

I sent the buyer a prepaid label, and he 'returned' me a small bottle of water and a pack of cereal in the a random package! So not even the original 'empty MacBook box with the cable' that he allegedly received from me by his own words.

I took a video of myself unsealing this package.

So based on the above I should now:

1. file a report with Action Fraud
2. submit it to eBay, along with a photo of what the buyer sent me back?

Thanks all.

[sml192]

Yes, follow the advice given by @4_bathrooms:

File a report with Action Fraud and then use the 'Report a problem' link in the return request, select 'Returned a different item' as the reason, and upload the Action Fraud reference/report together with any other evidence.

DO NOT use the 'Ask eBay to step in and help' link as that will just result in the return request being closed in the buyer's favour. 

[i11uminatus]

So eBay stepped in after all, despite me reporting as per above, and has now approved a refund to the buyer despite clear and unequivocal evidence that this is a scam((.

There is 'Send an appeal' option, how to approach it best?

[papso22]

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@i11uminatus wrote:

So eBay stepped in after all, despite me reporting as per above, and has now approved a refund to the buyer despite clear and unequivocal evidence that this is a scam((.

There is 'Send an appeal' option, how to approach it best?

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Can you confirm you followed all the steps given in message 12 in this thread, reporting to AF etc?

[4_bathrooms]

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@papso22 wrote:

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@i11uminatus wrote:

So eBay stepped in after all, despite me reporting as per above, and has now approved a refund to the buyer despite clear and unequivocal evidence that this is a scam((.

There is 'Send an appeal' option, how to approach it best?

---

Can you confirm you followed all the steps given in message 12 in this thread, reporting to AF etc?

---

If eBay "stepped in" it was because either the buyer or the seller clicked the "Ask eBay to step in" link. Looking at the dates it was almost certainly the buyer who did this; i.e. they waited the three days following the return tracking showing a status of "delivered" knowing the automated return process would guarantee them a full refund.

If the OP had clicked the "Report a problem" link in the return case it would not have been possible for the buyer to do this as clicking the "Report a problem" link would have closed the original return case and opened a new case in it's place against the buyer.

@i11uminatus have you filed a report with Action Fraud?

[i11uminatus]

To confirm:

- I as a seller did not ask eBay to step in 

- I filed a report with Action Fraud and have an email confirmation / reference number

- I clicked on "Report a problem" and provided details about the AF report and the fake 'return' that the buyer sent me, suggesting to provide photos, as neither option allowed to attach anything 

[4_bathrooms]

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@i11uminatus wrote:

To confirm:

- I as a seller did not ask eBay to step in 

- I filed a report with Action Fraud and have an email confirmation / reference number

- I clicked on "Report a problem" and provided details about the AF report and the fake 'return' that the buyer sent me, suggesting to provide photos, as neither option allowed to attach anything 

---

When you clicked the "Report a problem" link in the case what reason did you select for filing the report? If you had selected "Returned a different item" it should have provided you with a means of uploading a picture.

Also, what was the subject of the next message you received from eBay after using that link? Make sure you remove anything such as the buyer's username or any case ID numbers that might be in it as you can't post those here. Also, did eBay provide a specific reason for refunding the buyer at your expense? 

Your next step is obviously to appeal the case using the link to do so in the message that states eBay's decision. You will once again need to provide the AF reference number in your appeal and state exactly what happened. If eBay don't uphold your appeal you will need to take the matter up with the Financial Ombudsman Service but you will not be able do that until you have exhausted eBay's appeal process and obtained a final decision. 

[dancewithadingo]

Good Afternoon Illuminatus

While I believe your story that you have been scammed I feel that you are unlikely to ever see the item or your money again. If indeed you do receive a refund then it will be a long time coming. I sympathise and wish you well. 

Moving on you stated quite clearly in your listing that this was an unwanted  gift. I don't know anyone who is given gifts of that value ie £1900.  Personally I normally receive and give gifts with a value of say between £10.00 and £50.00. Furthermore  you have a current listing of another MacBook for £3800 which again you describe as an unwanted gift.  That is £4700 in tech gifts that you have received recently.

If you were given these as gifts then you would have been given the receipt or proof of purchase with your item(s) and as you state that both are still sealed and unopened it should have been possible  to return the goods to the store for a full refund instead of selling them,presumably at a loss, through eBay. 

Can you help me and other respondents with this curious situation?

[i11uminatus]

Hi, tbh not sure how that relates to the issue at hand, is the country has gone so left that (relatively) expensive gifts are no longer possible? I will certainly not be selling another Macbook 'remotely' until the case is resolved though! But since you took that much interest - I sold the one in question due to its wrong size and specs for me. I was actually able to get 2 other models at a great price but in different colours during BF. It took me agonisingly too many YouTube videos to decide between the two, but finally a visit to the Apple Store swayed me to go for silver, and the black one went to eBay, while I copy-pasted much of the description. And yes, all are sealed of which I take videos before shipping.

[i11uminatus]

So I clicked 'Send an appeal', received a callback from eBay minutes later, and following that a link to upload the Action Fraud report. 

Hopefully this time a human person will take a look, and not some algorithm.

[4_bathrooms]

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@i11uminatus wrote:

I was actually able to get 2 other models at a great price but in different colours during BF. It took me agonisingly too many YouTube videos to decide between the two, but finally a visit to the Apple Store swayed me to go for silver, and the black one went to eBay

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Then why on Earth didn't you just return the ones you didn't want to Apple or the retailer involved? Apple and most (if not all) of their authorised retailers allow products to be returned within 14 days of purchase provided you still have the original retail receipt. High end laptops, mobile devices, smart watches etc. will always attract scammers on eBay; you had a zero-risk means of obtaining a full refund for the ones you didn't want.

Anyway, as per my previous message what was the subject of the first message you received from eBay after using the "Report a problem" link in the case? This is the part at the very top of the message in bold or that can be seen in the preview window. eBay's case response messages use pretty standard templates so the subject will indicate what happened in the case. 

[i11uminatus]

Both in my email and eBay messages it's just 'Thanks for reporting an issue with a buyer', followed by '

We're reviewing your report. Hi XXX, Thanks for letting us know about a buyer who may have been violating our policies. Here's a summary of your report. Buyer: YYY Reason: I haven't received the item back from the buyer'.

It was the same subject (Thanks for reporting an issue with a buyer) earlier when I initially reported the buyer for he 'Falsely claimed the item wasn't as described' at the very onset of this ordeal.

[4_bathrooms]

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@i11uminatus wrote:

So I clicked 'Send an appeal', received a callback from eBay minutes later, and following that a link to upload the Action Fraud report. 

Hopefully this time a human person will take a look, and not some algorithm.

---

Well, that sounds positive at least. That is what is supposed to happen in the process mentioned earlier; i.e. the automated case is stopped and someone looks at the report. 

[i11uminatus]

Yes, some hope now, as for some reason I think the issue was never escalated anywhere prior to this moment, I never even had 'upload' buttons or similar available to send any photo or report, just text fields.

The latest message with a link to upload the supporting documents is titled 'Help us resolve your case'.

[4_bathrooms]

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@i11uminatus wrote:

Both in my email and eBay messages it's just 'Thanks for reporting an issue with a buyer', followed by '

We're reviewing your report. Hi XXX, Thanks for letting us know about a buyer who may have been violating our policies. Here's a summary of your report. Buyer: YYY Reason: I haven't received the item back from the buyer'.

It was the same subject (Thanks for reporting an issue with a buyer) earlier when I initially reported the buyer for he 'Falsely claimed the item wasn't as described' at the very onset of this ordeal.

---

The reason you should have selected was "Returned a different item". That explains why you weren't given the opportunity to upload anything and perhaps why the buyer was refunded - the option you selected was likely only concerned with what the return tracking stated. Selecting "Returned a different item" is the option that stops the automated case.

[sml192]

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@i11uminatus wrote:

Here's a summary of your report. Buyer: YYY Reason: I haven't received the item back from the buyer'.

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It looks like you selected the wrong reason for the report, it should have been 'Returned a different item' not 'I haven't received the item back from the buyer' as you did receive something.  This would explain why eBay found in favour of the buyer.

Hopefully you have now provided the correct reason in your appeal and that will be more successful. 

[*vyolla*]

I'm totally confused here.

You bought 2 MacBooks at a bargain price, sold the black MacBook 14" as an unwanted gift, you kept the silver MacBook, but currently have a live listing up for a new black 16" MacBook?

[johnwash1]

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@i11uminatus wrote:

Hi, tbh not sure how that relates to the issue at hand, is the country has gone so left that (relatively) expensive gifts are no longer possible? I will certainly not be selling another Macbook 'remotely' until the case is resolved though! But since you took that much interest - I sold the one in question due to its wrong size and specs for me. I was actually able to get 2 other models at a great price but in different colours during BF. It took me agonisingly too many YouTube videos to decide between the two, but finally a visit to the Apple Store swayed me to go for silver, and the black one went to eBay, while I copy-pasted much of the description. And yes, all are sealed of which I take videos before shipping.

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So, like others, I'm struggling to understand.  You couldn't decide which to buy by looking at videos.  Fair enough, I can relate to that.  Yet, by buying more than one model, but not opening them, you were able to decide?

Or were you bounced into buying more than one because of fear of missing out on the Black Friday price?  Could you not return the unwanted one to the store for a refund of the price you paid?  Or did you imagine an opportunity to make some dosh by hoping to resell at a profit on ebay? 

[i11uminatus]

I think you're going completely off-topic here... One gifted and sold,  2 bought instead,  and?.. I once bought 5 premium buggies to choose the right one for my son as every model seemed to be lacking in one thing or another, no adequate video reviews and comparisons were available, and there was no option to compare them at a store save for the 2 most popular ones - ended up with the one initially discarded completely based on specs alone. Same for wi-fi - it took me multiple tries, models and combinations  to get what I wanted, and then sold the rest, having bought some routers in multiples, since I needed 4 in total for my case. I have v specific requirements, even though some might change in the process, like the laptop colour here, and ready to go to lengths to meet them.

I think we need to get back on topic as any thread is potentially useful for future visitors.

[papua4]

I have just been scammed similar to this. It’s the refund scam! 
buyer said my item didn’t fit so would like to return. I said of course and accepted the return through eBay. A few days later a tracked envelope arrived with a pen in it? No tracking numbers on the envelope which was weird. A message from EBay saying my item has been returned and it’s time to refund! Suddenly I realised what had happened. I scanned the scan bar code thing on the envelope and it’s the same tracking number as on the returns on eBay! I reported it to EBay straight away and said I do not want to refund the buyer but they came back and said it’s been delivered so they refunded the buyer! Advised me as it’s an online sale they can’t see what was returned and suggest I have a contingency fund to cover returns! He has £185 of my money.. so cross. I reported him and he’s still on there! Also 1 week later someone else tried it. They loved the item and gutted as it was the wrong one, I said no problem I’ll exchange for the other correct one and guess what, they said no it’s fine, I’ll just have a refund please. but I refused the refund through eBay but said they could return it via the post office. They asked 3 times to return it through eBay but I said no, and I never heard anything else! 
there’s absolutely no protection for sellers. For this reason I’m closing my shop and sticking to Etsy! 
sorry this has happened to you too!