Protocol for being wrongly accused of selling counterfeit products

[anthonyr1825]

I bought from a bankruptcy auction some TRX Pro 3 Suspension Training kits.  The kits arrived boxed, still sealed and immaculate so I listed them on eBay.

i received notification that they had been delisted and I was informed I was selling counterfeit products (which I can slightly understand considering the amount of ridiculously cheap ones seem to be on eBay in Ireland, France and Poland).  I made contact with TRX via email to see if there was any way I could check their authenticity and was directed to a page on their website where I could input some discreet serial numbers which I could find if I unsealed the boxes.  I also sent photos to TRX.

The kits turned out to be genuine and this was also confirmed on email by TRX - but eBay will only reinstate my listing if they receive notification from TRX, who are are obviously not a fan of people selling their product on eBay cheaper than they can sell…so not overly keen, or blatantly unwilling to contact eBay.

How do I get this resolved or is this yet another example of how sellers are simply penalised even though they have done nothing at all wrong.

Thankyou for any information.

[papso22]

It's more likely a 'vero' claim by TRX who, as you say, don't want their products on ebay.  Ebay use the word counterfeit in these situations, usually incorrectly,  so proving they are genuine makes no difference.

If TRX won't tell ebay you can sell them, then you can't sell them.

[antrog-3208]

So yet again it makes EBay look like a really unattractive place to do any sort of business.  Over the last year or so I have been repeatedly encouraged to set up an eBay store/business - and did think it may be good.  But now, why would I even want to when you have absolutely zero control over what you do.  EBay is a window which you pay to show goods - but eBay then puts shutters up everytime someone doesn’t like what is on show, or clicks some algorithm to turn the building round so your window is now in the back alley.  

Unless you personally make and commercially protect any item you try to sell, someone who doesn’t want you selling cheaper than they can has the means to have you labelled a cheat /fraudster , eBay obliges with no explanation at all, and you instantly lose any money you have invested - I thought eBay was a marketplace set up to buy and resell.

We don’t need another Amazon.

[cobwebcottage]

'So yet again it makes EBay look like a really unattractive place to do any sort of business.  Over the last year or so I have been repeatedly encouraged to set up an eBay store/business - and did think it may be good.  But now, why would I even want to when you have absolutely zero control over what you do.'

Because at the moment you are trading illegally and your buyers are also paying a BPF on top of the price of the sale. 

[plpmr]

a question asked by some trademark holders etc is - how can a private seller hold and sell stocks of brand new items.

[anthonyr1825]

Thanks for adding something worthless cobwebcottage.   Seems to be the fashion on here - I do not believe I have done anything at all wrong at all here - yet get no guidance whatsover - which I am beginning to realise is pretty standard.  Maybe if I paid to be a business seller it would help - but does not seem to be so by the volume of information from business sellers on here.

Please tell me what I am doing ‘illegally’.  I am a private seller who is self employed.  I pay taxes on any on the profit of any service or product I sell.

i would like to run an eBay business and have no problem with cost - but there is very little to incentivise me to do this when issues such as this misuse of ‘counterfeit’ means that eBay can literally decide whether I make money or not - and I would have had to invest considerable resource before eBay even got to arbitrarily make that incorrect decision. 

[*help_no_brakes*]

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@anthonyr1825 wrote:

Please tell me what I am doing ‘illegally’.  I am a private seller who is self employed.  I pay taxes on any on the profit of any service or product I sell.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/selling-policies/selling-practices-policy/business-seller-polic...

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[anthonyr1825]

Why can’t they ?  Is that illegal ?

if they have bought them from a legal source and they ARE genuine products -  what is the problem.  The only problem I can see is trademark holder does not want to see them selling cheaper than they are selling. Or perhaps the buyer has less rights buying from a private seller on eBay and the trademark holder believes their quality or integrity is at stake with a shoddy private seller.

What if someone buys me 10 pairs Sealskin Socks for Christmas - still wrapped, sealed and unworn.  I don’t like them as they  are too itchy.  Am I breaking the law selling these on eBay as new products as a private seller.   Or is the issue that I am breaking some eBay policy of not declaring myself a business when I sell 4 or more of the same items. 

[*vyolla*]

In all honesty TRX have likely invoked their VeRO and had your listings removed because a private seller wouldn't have multiples of brand new items to list - a private seller is one who is just selling off their own personal items such as clothes from their wardrobe, bits from their loft/garage etc.

A Business seller is someone who buys or makes items to sell on.  They need to be registered as a business to meet the requirements of UK law. You can obviously offset more expenses as a business seller, but can't offset any at all as a private one, and items listed on private accounts have a buyer fee of 4% + 75p added to the item price. 

To correctly register as a business seller simply go to your Personal Information in your account and to the right of Account Type, which will be showing as 'Individual'  you'll see an Edit option.

https://accountsettings.ebay.co.uk/profile

This doesn't affect your feedback profile or any current listings, it merely upgrades your account so that you're compliant with current consumer and eBay policy.

[cobwebcottage]

You are trading online and not registered legally as a business seller so you are breaking Consumer Law.

By law, you have to display your name and details on all of your listings.

As I have already mentioned, your customers are now paying a buyer protection fee which is not applicable for business sellers so your are also misrepresenting your goods for sale.

If you are self employed then when you opened your account to sell on Ebay, you should have been honest and registered as a business seller. You chose not to so you are trading illegally and avoiding Ebay fees.

It may be worthless to you but not to the buyers who should be protected by their consumer rights.

If you want guidance then you can start here and there is plenty more online.

Business seller policy | eBay

[anthonyr1825]

Thankyou.  That is more constructive, but I still can not see anything illegal.  If I put 1 TRX kit on here it will be taken down. 

i accept that eBay can have rules to ‘encourage’ sellers to be businesses, that’s how they increase their percentage of any sale and pushes sellers to sell more to increase their earnings.

So as a ‘business seller’ this ‘VeRo’ issue will not happen and trademark holders will respect my decision to sell on their products which i can prove are genuine and bought legally ?

I don’t think so.  

I believe quite simply that some companies do not want product selling on eBay at a lower than RRP so hire a Third Party (whose job should be protecting intellectual property rights) who issue notice to online marketplaces to classify any product being sold as counterfeit  and eBay just goes along even when evidence to the contrary is provided.  

So why would I want to pay for that ?

[*vyolla*]

Trading on the correct eBay account is not an option.

You're either a private seller listing your own personal bits and pieces or you're not. You're not. 

eBay don't hire a third party, the Verified Rights Owner is the copyright/brand owner who tells eBay to remove the listing, and eBay have to comply. 

[anthonyr1825]

Then eBay are perfectly within their rights to throw me off if I am not abiding by ‘their’ rules.  That is something I have no control over and have to accept.

But eBay are not ‘the law’.    I sell things, I declare my earnings, I pay taxes and I sell genuine products.  I have not broken the law regarding this ‘counterfeit issue’ and I would like 1 person with any vague connection to eBay to say….’yes, you have been well and truly shafted, but there is not a diddly squat we can do about this type of issue (or several other issues which I could rant on about), but hey, the sun will rise tomorrow even though you are significantly out of pocket’.  

and at that point I can further balance whether I think eBay do enough to protect me as a seller using their shop window or whether I wait to be ejected for not towing the line and just take the constant shafting and pay for the privilege.   After all, as said previously, to list on ebay I have to invest first -  if that investment can be abused this way, it’s not a shrewd investment, and perhaps I should look for a hobby elsewhere. 

[*vyolla*]

You haven't broken the law re the counterfeit issue, and the wording of the message you've received notifying you of your items removal could certainly be better and explain that the brand owner may request removal of any of their items and eBay must comply, but you must surely see that you kind of red flagged yourself by listing on a private seller account. 

[jonat_broad]

While the wording could be better it’s worth noting Amazon also use the term counterfeit to cover a broad spectrum of reasons. In short the marketplace haven’t been provided enough evidence that the product isn’t counterfeit. In some cases, as you have found the only evidence is a letter from the brand owner.

this could indeed happen with any branded product.

most brands of a certain size will have recognised supply chains either through wholesalers or direct. You may need approval to sell goods on marketplaces. It’s on businesses to do due diligence.

buying from a bankruptcy auction is not ever likely to be a valid supply chain to sell something new on eBay. 

Treat it as a learning exercise. Most businesses tend to have to go through them, even larger ones with years of experience.