Dispute opened with payment provider

[splodge19]

Buyer purchased very expensive fragrance from me. I have it clarified from the manufacturer it's authentic. She set up eBay account and purchased same day. No feedback for me but a month later has opened dispute directly with payment provider 'item not as described' bypassing the eBay 'open a case' process. Obviously I have challenged (100% feedback and sold many perfumes) Have asked her to explain and return fragrance to me. I want to know what happens now if she doesn't reply/doesn't return fragrance. Surely it cannot be she gets to keep the fragrance AND a refund.  Does eBay ever step in? Please advise. Thanks

[*help_no_brakes*]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799&st=3&pos=2&query=...

[papso22]

You can't win these.  I am afraid you will almost certainly lose the item and the money.  It's one of Ebay's biggest scandals.

[myriad*seller]

As above you lose the item and the money and if you don't refund willingly before being forced there is a £17 admin fee to pay as well 

[splodge19]

Just ridiculous that the onus is on me to provide proof which I've done but the payment provider gets to decide. I despair. Been on eBay 12 years and never had a dispute opened this way. 

[sml192 · Accepted solution]

Unfortunately, there is very little that you can do to defend against an 'Item not as described' Payment dispute, so you are unlikely to succeed.  Ebay only provide protection if an eBay Money Back Guarantee case of the same type has already been decided in your favour. 

Payment disputes/chargebacks are actually filed against eBay and the final decision is made by the buyer's payment provider (PayPal/Card issuer) so eBay has no say in the outcome. 

If you requested the item to be returned when challenging the dispute then eBay say that they will try to get it back but, unfortunately, there is no guarantee as returning the item is not a condition of the refund to the buyer.  Sending a prepaid return label to the buyer might help to persuade them to return it.  

Handling payment disputes:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799

Payment disputes seller protections:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293&st=...

[*help_no_brakes*]

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@papso22 wrote:

You can't win these.  I am afraid you will almost certainly lose the item and the money.  It's one of Ebay's biggest scandals.

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Not defending eBay.

However all Payment Disputes/Chargebacks in any setting (not just eBay transactions) are decided by the payment provider.

I do agree it is nigh on impossible to win these disputes.

[papso22]

Indeed, but ebay doesn't put up any form of defence as it's not their money.

I am sure sellers who sell online outside of ebay have a much better chance of winning these than they do on here.

[m25jet]

If you have not already done so by the time you read this response add the buyer's User ID to your Blocked Bidders List so that he/she cannot purchase anything else from you in the future and screw you over again.

[pg_kicks]

You are leaving yourself open to an INAD on majority of your listings as you have them as brand new then admit they are not new in the item description, if you've sprayed them then surely they cant be new, even if its just once. 

[sml192]

In addition to the advice given by @pg_kicks selling used perfume/cosmetics is against eBay policy:

• Listings for used cosmetics, sponges, or applicators are not allowed. This includes products such as skin moisturisers, sunscreens, perfumes, lipsticks, fingernail polishes, eye and facial makeup preparations, shampoos, permanent waves, hair colours, toothpastes, and deodorants. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/cosmetics-policy?id=4290&st=3&pos=1...

[*help_no_brakes*]

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@papso22 wrote:

Indeed, but ebay doesn't put up any form of defence as it's not their money.

I am sure sellers who sell online outside of ebay have a much better chance of winning these than they do on here.

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I should have been clearer.

I  did not mean just online sales.

If you own a pub with attached 20 room accomadation (as do my son & I) you are on your own.

We've dealt with more than a handful & they are difficult battles fought over many weeks.

At least eBay offers limited Seller Protection.

[tommystrezures]

Most carriers wont handle used perfume either, as its classed as hazardous etc. For those that do there are strict packaging guidelines/labelling required.

[dch2112011]

The interesting point and possibly the only credible defence is that you state that you have confirmation from the manufacturer  that the product is genuine - upload this as part of your defence.

Of course this assumes that the claim is that the product is fake.  If it is for the reason that it is used and you have described it as new it is very difficult to defend if you are trading on a personal account simply because you are claiming not to be a business and are therefore by default not only denying your customer their consumer rights but also losing any chance of business protections.

The assumption would be in balance that the goods are not authentic or used simply because of the way you are claiming to not be trading !

Sometimes saving a few pounds in fees and denying the legal right of return when selling online backfires and costs you through other buyer protections

[splodge19]

You have misread the comments. The item was BNIB cello sealed. Sent photos to manufacturer. Email reply from them uploaded on my challenge. 
What I found disconcerting is that the claim is INAD with no explanation. Gives me nothing to go on. 

[dch2112011]

The reason is given to ebay via a series of codes which are simplified by ebay.  ebay do defend the claim based on the information you give them and also offer seller protection.

Chargebacks are a customer service protection offered and decided by payment providers for their customers, they are not legally binding until you reach section 75 values.

All mediums accepting card payments will act the same as ebay  even if you have the agreement to receive payments (most banks will want a formal loan agreement to cover the value of payments taken by card to cover any chargebacks)

Payments can be reversed  - the form of defense is more detailed but does not give you any explanation other than the reason code which is the nearest fit not an explanation from the customer. 

Chargebacks are initiated by the payment provider not the customer , quite often the chargeback procedure is not explained to your customer nor are they aware of it, they simply have been given a refund by the payment provider - 'the dispute' with ebay is then raised without their knowledge.

In your situation where you have chosen to deny your customer their legal rights of return, chargebacks become inevitable and as a non - business a defence has a slim chance when selling 'new' products.

A receipt confirming a personal purchase from a retailler may carry some weight for an item sold as an unwanted gift from  a personal seller.  

In effect you are selling as a trader but acting as a personal seller, so the weight against your defence is greater because of the nature of your identity. (you have no business credibility nor are you entitled to any business protections)

It is down to personal choice whether 'free listings' warrant the risk of losing product and refunding customers to save a few pounds in fees.

[felinesrfun1]

I have just won a dispute as the card privider sided with me. Buyer bought a ring, claimed she didn't like it but I didn't refund seller remorse cases and state this in my auctions.

Then she opened a chargeback saying the item wasn't as described which was a blantant lie as she also had paperwork to prove the ring description was correct.

This buyer was trying it on and flip flopped in her messages about what was wrong with the ring. I decided to dispute the charge back providing my close up photos and all her messages changing her mind, claiming new things and stating this was a fraudulent scam which it was.

Given had I agreed she didn't need to return the ring I decided I was on a hiding to nothing so disputed the chargeback because had she won she still might not have returned the ring anyway.

That being the case my next move was the small claims court.

However the card provider saw this for what it was and I am relieved because I stood to lose money I needed.

Those who will say don't sell jewellery on eBay I don't sell anything above £500 and in 15 years have never encountered this problem with 100% feedback as a seller and buyer. As a seller I've had repeat customers and always had happy customers.

So saying you won't win a chargeback is wrong. It can happen as my case proves and if an item cost is worth it then I say go for it.

[felinesrfun1]

Wrong see my post above.

[felinesrfun1]

Even if you agree to accept the dispute the item may not be returned so you have nothing to lose. I also filed with action fraud and gave ebay the reference number.

Why should somone be able to defraud a seller and a card provider?

with these cases if a seller loses, eBay should say no money released until the seller confirms return of the item in the original condition.

That would stop a lot of these overnight.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

actually i think it is a government scandal as they see these chargebacks into law.  I am not against them but if someone buys something and then goes to the banks for a chargeback then they should (like e bay does) give you the chance to get the item back,  Okay, you may not get the item back or it may be damaged but at least there is some attempt to be fair to sellers.  As it is it seems to be always on the side of the buyer.