‼️Warning for Gold and Silver sellers ⛔️

[lechatcurieux]

Hi Guys, 

I sold a 1 kilo Johnson Matthey silver bar here to a user. I felt off as the profile had been dormant then a sudden activity buying gold and silver. I called eBay who incorrectly (!!) informed me I should leave the sale as I would be liable for fees. 

(There WERE no fees and I wish I’d trusted my gut and cancelled).

Payment cleared, I have the Royal Mail delivery photo and signature from the Address in London SW16.  THEN I receive a dispute claim and I’ve resubmitted all my proof. I decided to contact other sellers from her feedback and so far the same has happened to 5 other sellers, all had proof of delivery but are waiting for the dispute. 

If you unfortunately become part of the fraud, please contact me for more information. And make sure to report the issue since we are not allowed to leave feedback. So until the disputes are settled, the buyer is free to buy as much gold and silver as they like.  BE WARNED. I will be reporting to Action Fraud asap. 

[jonatjonatjonat]

you cannot name and shame users on the forum  - no matter how warranted you feel it is.

You've already had the names removed from your initial post - they will be removed from the second one in due course by a moderator.

All you will end up with here is the inability to post on the forums yourself.

[magpiecorner1]

You can leave feedback, I don't think that there is anything wrong in stating that you are surprised that they haven't received the item as you have the proof of delivery, and suggest - in the feedback - that such a heavy for size parcel - used the words kilo of silver - might be remembered by the postie, so worth asking him about it.    Or anything to give others a clue that the sale didn't go smoothly. 

There are folk on here better able than I to suggest what might or might not be allowed in positive feedback to buyers.

But there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

Worth putting the word out there with the big scrappies, pawnbrokers and melters to give them a heads up as its identifable - I was a licensed precious metal scrappie for many years and I've only ever seen a few kilo silver bars, not they aren't that common.

And get in touch with eBay - I had a situation the other way around - a large lot of scrap gold was sold to 6 buyers - eBay were very very quick to resolve this.

Best of luck!

[4_bathrooms]

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@lechatcurieux wrote:

Payment cleared, I have the Royal Mail delivery photo and signature from the Address in London SW16.  THEN I receive a dispute claim and I’ve resubmitted all my proof.

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What reason was given for the buyer opening a dispute? If the buyer is claiming they didn't receive the item you need an online delivery confirmation for items under £450 in value with a signature capture for items worth £450 or more. That is the evidence eBay requires to successfully defend an "item not received" case.

[lechatcurieux]

Yes I understand that now. I am not allowed to give the names of people who committed a fraudulent act against myself and 5 other sellers.

Despite having every evidence.

It was against the rules of me trying to warn fellow sellers in my effort to hopefully have them avoid the awful distress we have been put through. 

I understand that if I persist in trying to help the community, it could result in my not being allowed to use the boards, 

I am now informed so thank you. 

[lechatcurieux]

Hi, Ebau just sent a general message received. I’ve got a crime reference number from Fraud action but that’s a really good point about telling the dealers about the serial numbers on our items so thank you 🙂

[lechatcurieux]

The seller actually gave very little detail according to eBay. It just said dispute on my dispute and the same for the other sellers. 

I sent Royal Mail, special delivery, upgraded the insurance to £2500 and have a signature and a photo of them holding the package. 

[bulk_distribution]

Hi there, sorry to hear of your loss.

Please don't be put off by the policy against naming and shaming. It's there because it protects unfair naming and shaming, it protects against lawsuits flying around, and also naming and shaming is unlikely to really help other people because it's unlikely anyone else would be about to sell or buy with the person being named and shamed.

Anyway: I've been in a similar situation, but only for a single coin l sold. Buyer made a chargeback via the bank and despite my effort in explaining that it obviously had been delivered, the bank sided with the buyer and eBay sided with myself and covered my loss 100%. In my case, it was quite obviously the courier themselves, they photoed the Large Letter padded envelope in the letterbox, then took it back out and made the INR claim l think.

I am a registered business. I note that you are a private seller and l'm not quite sure what protections you have (l have tried to read up on it but l can't get my head around it).

I'd be curious to know how this case worked out for you - can you update?

[*vyolla*]

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@lechatcurieux wrote:

Hi Guys, 

I sold a 1 kilo Johnson Matthey silver bar here to a user. I felt off as the profile had been dormant then a sudden activity buying gold and silver. I called eBay who incorrectly (!!) informed me I should leave the sale as I would be liable for fees. 

(There WERE no fees and I wish I’d trusted my gut and cancelled).

Payment cleared, I have the Royal Mail delivery photo and signature from the Address in London SW16.  THEN I receive a dispute claim and I’ve resubmitted all my proof. I decided to contact other sellers from her feedback and so far the same has happened to 5 other sellers, all had proof of delivery but are waiting for the dispute. 

If you unfortunately become part of the fraud, please contact me for more information. And make sure to report the issue since we are not allowed to leave feedback. So until the disputes are settled, the buyer is free to buy as much gold and silver as they like.  BE WARNED. I will be reporting to Action Fraud asap. 

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With respect, in order to warn others and get the word out I think that you have to be a bit more precise with what's happened here.

Exactly what kind of dispute is it?

Is it an eBay or PayPal item not received claim?

An eBay or PayPal item not as described claim?

A not received chargeback from the buyers credit/card provider routed via eBay?

A not as described chargeback from the buyers credit/card provider routed via eBay?

[papso22]

Or an unauthorised transaction  claim.

[lechatcurieux]

Hi, I’ve tried putting details but the moderators keep shaving all the details off 😤. Which is absurd as I’ve said nothing thats not factual or provable. 

ebay themselves said they had very few details and all they knew was a ‘dispute’ had been raised to the buyers financial institution. So eBay are working with the financial institution but I’m not allowed any details.

Since then eBay have covered me with their seller protection and I got my money, but at least of the 3 other sellers are still in limbo waiting for an outcome. 

[lechatcurieux]

I understand that completely, but before I sold the item I did a search on the usernames. If I’d seen any kind of warning, or even a vague mention of caution, I’d not have let my item go, or at least had a warning to consider my decision. 

And of course it’s not just me, there’s 9 other sellers had the same situation with the same eBay member.  But if I try and write even the other sellers names here that also gets removed. 

Anyway, I think the moral of the story is, this board is. It really isn’t much use in trying to warn fellow sellers. Luckily they are not the boss of ‘other’ sites. Anyone selling to these people can now put their names into google and you WILL find some information. I had to do something!

[papso22]

Ebay always knows what the dispute is, and other posters must be told the reason because they tell us.

If they gave you seller protection there are a few reasons why that would be the case.

1. For an item not received or unauthorised transaction dispute,  online tracking showing delivery to the address given by the buyer at checkout, will get you ebay seller protection. 

2. For an item not as described dispute,  the only protection is if ebay has formally found for the seller in an ebay not as described case raised for exactly the same reason.  This is extraordinarily rare.

All other not as described payment disputes are impossible for the seller to win.

[lechatcurieux]

I agree on the whole with that. But say for HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE 👀 the buyer is making the claim against their own credit card or bank, eg saying they bought something on eBay that didn’t arrive, then the bank deal with eBay and the seller just gets put on hold.

Obviously eBay can’t discuss with me someone else’s bank activities.

So my theory is, a buyer has 30 days to make the claim for a problem item with eBay, but they have 120 days (typically) to claim on their credit card. If they time this carefully there’s a fair no man’s land in between. 

Makes sense as to why the sales for all of us went through, THEN a ‘dispute was raised’. My money for the silver bar was already safe, but my eBay credit for other sales was on hold. 

The lady on the phone didn’t say too much but I got the definite impression she was well versed. She kept saying not to worry and she often sees eBay cover “these situations” themselves. 

I guess there’s a whole lot of people out there who think they are cleverer than their banks. I’ll never know, I just wish I could have stopped other people selling. Her feedback shows 3 more large sales since i reported to action fraud.

[bulk_distribution]

This is an "unauthorised transaction" and quite likely a scam. Expect the bank to side with the buyer, but I'm glad eBay covered you even as a private seller. Remember though, name and address might not matter - if it's the courier photoing the parcel half inserted into the letterbox then taking it out. One protection may be to not name your defau;lt courier in your listings.  i guess.

[lechatcurieux]

You mean the courier photographing it then removing it?… Well thats something else for me to worry about now 😂 Luckily I’d gotten every protection I could and I DO trust Royal Mail. They sent location stamps, photos and signatures. But yes I agree, I think the buyer did a huge bulk order for precious metals online, then goodness tried to scam their bank. 

I’ve noticed they are no longer a registered user now, I’ve noticed doubt they’ll set up a new account somehow.  But at the very least, anyone putting her name address etc into google before a sale, at least now they WILL find some information online before they post. 

[bulk_distribution]

Hi there, yes that happened to me, but it wasn't RM (l won't say which courier it was). RM have their fair share of lost item cases too. 

I don't know much about your buyer, admittedly, but l'm glad eBay covered you even as a private seller. Could be because lots of people complained. The scammer is either reckless or every step is carefully planned. If it's the latter then maybe they assumed you'd be covered. I don't get why banks are so ready to roll over and cover the scamming claimant despite the evidence presented. I'm assuming the neerdowells get their comeuppance off the books in some form. One hopes.