Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

I would like to share and ask for advise about how to post valuable products with Royal Mail.
I have had a couple of very unfortunate and frustrating experiences with Royal Mail, related to deliveries lost, even stolen or simply damaged.
I have learnt that even paying a Tracked 48 service (£2.70) that apparently covers up to £150, they don’t pay compensations at all if the products are Coins for instance.
This made me clear that for products sold over £20 I need the really expensive Special Delivery Service, but even using this service it is not clear at all in their T&C if the insurance covers you the amount sold or just the original amount you paid for the product, thing that it is pretty much impossible to demonstrate talking about coins.
 
So, in summay:
Any help to understand if the Royal Mail Special Delivery Service compensates and therefore refunds in case of lost or damage the value of the transaction from eBay?.
 
Many thanks in advance.
 
So, in summay:
Any help to understand if the Royal Mail Special Delivery Service compensates and therefore refunds  in case of lost or damage the value of the transaction from eBay?.
 
Many thanks in advance.
Message 1 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

Hi mitridate, thanks for your post.

 

In this case, the best thing to do is asking this question to Royal Mail directly just to be 100% safe. If you contact them, I am sure they will be able to confirm how it works, so you can make your decision. 

 

Thank you,

Marco


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Message 2 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

Royal Mail's compensation policies are on their website (royalmail.com - go to the bottom of the homepage and click on 'How to make a claim' (https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/325/). At the foot of that page are separate links to compensation policies for Delay, Loss and Damage.

 

You need to be aware, though, that RM's "up to £150 compensation cover" isn't all it seems. Whilst the maximum compensation is £150, Royal Mail will only pay compensation if the claimant can produce an original purchase invoice showing the price paid. Compensation is limited to that amount - not the amount for which the item sold - and if the claimant cannot provide proof of purchase the compensation is limited to a book of 8 1st class stamps. Been there, done that...

 

Message 3 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

Hi Marco.

 

First of all, many thanks for you kind and fast response.

Just to be clear, my questions was really easy and plain:

Does Royal Mail compensate us, the customers, when the product posted (my case is based on coins) is lost for the 100% value that the product was sold in eBay and the delivery service paid for is Special Delivery Service?.

 

I formulated the question to Royal weeks ago and still waiting for a conclusive answers rather than go to our policies.

I'm really sorry, but with their policies copid belowed for inllestration I understand nothing:

Many thanks.

Table 2 – Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™ (not Posted on account)

All items (with additional evidence)Fee refund plus compensation on basis of the customer’s actual loss. This compensation is subject to the maximum payable being the lower of the market value of the item and the maximum level of compensation purchased

Notes –

  1. Where an item is lost or damaged beyond repair then actual loss is the amount it cost the customer to acquire, purchase or manufacture the item subject to condition, age and depreciation. Where an item is damaged it is the cost of repair. No additional payment will be made for the reduced value of the repaired item. If a customer has used one of the services set out in table 1 above, then any claim for compensation for actual loss will be paid up to the market value or the statutory maximum which ever is the smaller amount. Where Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™ has been used then any compensation for actual loss will be paid up to the smaller of market value or the compensation purchased by the sender. Below is an example of actual loss.
  • Mrs Smith (the end purchaser) bought a pair of jeans from a shop and paid £25 for them. If she posts them on and they go missing or are damaged beyond repair she can claim what it cost her to purchase the jeans, i.e. £25.
  • The Shop (the retailer) that sells the jeans buys them from the manufacturer for £15. If they post them and they go missing or are damaged beyond repair they can claim what it cost them to acquire the jeans, i.e. £15.
  • The Factory (the manufacturer) that supplies the shop makes the jeans for £10. If they post them and they go missing or are damaged beyond repair they can claim what the item cost them to manufacture, i.e. £10.

 

2. When assessing the market value of the content of an item the value of any message must be ignored (e.g. the market value of a cheque is not its face value).

3. All claims must supply as a minimum the following “basic evidence”

  • the names and addresses of the sender, addressee and claimant,
  • the Royal Mail product used,
  • the postage paid and method of postage, e.g. stamps, franking impression, SmartStamp®
  • the place of posting,
  • the date of posting,
  • the basis for asserting the posting details and product used (such as date of postmark, certificate of posting (if available) and for Royal Mail Special Delivery by 1pm™  and Royal Mail Signed for™, the product documentation)
  • a description of the contents,
  • the date of delivery,
  • a description of the packaging and condition of the mail item itself

Claimants must retain all the packaging and contents of damaged items or items subject to part loss as Royal Mail may need to inspect them. If they are not retained compensation may not be paid.

4. Claims for items with an intrinsic value should all be made on Royal Mail’s current loss and damage claim form. The claim form needs to be signed and dated by the claimant and supported by “additional evidence” (evidence of posting and evidence of value) to corroborate the amount claimed for actual loss. If only basic evidence can be provided then only stamps can be considered.

5. Evidence of posting for a damaged item or an item subject to part loss includes:

  1. Certificate of posting (provided automatically for Royal Mail Signed for™ items and Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™ (not posted on account) and available on request at Post Office® branches for other items);
  2. Horizon certificate of posting;
  3. Collect+ certificate of posting
  4. Online Click & Drop proof of posting, stamped at a Royal Mail Customer Service Point or Post Office®
  5. The item with envelope or packaging.
  6. Where a collection from home or workplace has been booked, a Collection Notification or email receipt received after the item has been collected.

For products where a product specific certificate of posting is issued automatically at the point of posting Royal Mail will require the certificate of posting to be submitted if a claim is made, in addition to the item and packaging.

6. For claims relating to Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™ Royal Mail will require evidence of the level of compensation purchased shown on the Horizon receipt, product documentation or posting docket book provided for business collection customers.

7. Evidence of the actual loss must be provided to enable Royal Mail to determine the value of the contents of a packet. Such evidence might be original receipts, bank or credit card statements, details of age, catalogue price, paypal record, invoices, manufacturing costs, auctioneers valuation, and repair costs in the case of damage claims. This list is not exhaustive and is for illustrative purposes only.

8. All documentation provided must be originals not copies. Customers are strongly advised to retain a copy of all original documents submitted in support of a claim.

9. Royal Mail reserves the right to inspect the item and packaging and/or to request additional documentation and/or information from the claimant, sender or recipient to protect against unwarranted or duplicate claims. This includes, but is not limited to, a declaration of non-receipt (or proof of non receipt in appropriate cases).

10. Evidence must be provided that the part loss or damage sustained by the item is consistent with the damage to the envelope or to the external packaging or the internal wrappings. 

11. Where compensation for the full value of an item, in its pre damaged condition, has been paid, we are not obliged to return the item to you and may deal with it or dispose of it as we see fit. In instances where the repair value only has been paid as compensation for the damage, the item will be returned to the claimant.

 

Exclusions:

A summary of exclusions where compensation will not be payable for damage or part loss is set out below.

Compensation for damage or part loss will not be payable:

1. where the claim relates to an item posted with, or handled by another postal operator or third party other than when another postal operator or third party has posted the item using Royal Mail’s “1st Class services” or “2nd Class services”, in which case that postal operator will be regarded as the sender of the item for compensation purposes;

2. where the damage or part loss has not arisen due to any wrongful act done, or any neglect or default committed by an officer, servant or agent of Royal Mail while performing or purporting to perform his functions as such in relation to the receipt, carriage, delivery or other dealing with the item;

3. where the damage or part loss has arisen due to the posting or receiving customer’s own act or omission; including but not confined to a failure to collect mail held for customer collection, for example using such services as PO Box, Mail Collect and Poste Restante, within the required timescales,

4. where the damage or part loss has arisen due to circumstances outside the control of Royal Mail including exceptional severe weather conditions, acts of terrorism and vandalism and acts of third parties with whom Royal Mail has no contractual relationship;

5. where damage or part loss is due to a latent or inherent defect, natural deterioration; or where there is no material damage to the item or material part loss of the contents;

6. where all of the conditions that apply to the service used have not been complied with, including but not confined to:

  • where an item does not comply with all the provisions set out in the United Kingdom Postal Scheme and those provisions relating to specific services detailed in product licences, terms and conditions, application forms and similar product documentation;
  • where a Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™ (not posted on account) item does not adhere to the terms and conditions for that service;

7. where the item is not fully and correctly addressed in a manner that includes all the elements of the postal address (including the full postcode) written clearly on the front or on a label securely attached to the front of the cover or envelope, or the address is illegible, or the address is not fully visible;

8. where the item is not in a suitable and reasonably strong cover or envelope appropriate to its contents that (with the exception of Articles for the Blind) is sealed or fastened securely;

9. where the item is not packaged in accordance with the requirements of the relevant schemes made under the Postal Services Act, including but not confined to:

  • where anything enclosed in the letter is not well protected against damage
  • where a breakable item has not been packed in a strong container with enough packaging material to protect the item against pressure and knocks, and where the item has not been marked with the words “FRAGILE HANDLE WITH CARE” in capital letters on the cover or envelope above the address,
  • where an item that may be damaged by bending  is not packed in a strong container that will prevent the item from being bent , and marked with the words  “DO NOT BEND” on the cover or envelope above the address;
  • where a letter contains an item that is likely to perish or decay, the letter is not marked with the word ‘PERISHABLE’ in capital letters on the cover or envelope above the address;
  • where restricted items are not packed in accordance with further published packaging requirements;
  • where the packaging does not comply with any other information published in paper or electronic form by the Royal Mail on packing.

10. where the item contains valuables (i.e. money and jewellery) unless posted using an appropriate Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed™ service within the terms of this scheme;

11. where Royal Mail has destroyed, dealt with or disposed of an item at its discretion under any section of the relevant schemes made under section 89 of the Postal Services Act or in accordance with other legislation;

12. where the item is one of the following:

  • an undeliverable or return to sender item;
  • an item containing anything prohibited by law or any item listed as prohibited in the relevant United Kingdom Postal Schemes;

13. where an item has been forwarded from the original delivery address stated on the item other than by Royal Mail under its redirection service,

14. where an item has been forwarded or redirected to an address in the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man.

Further details of conditions of posting, including packaging and addressing requirements, and of prohibited and restricted items can be found in our ‘Our Services’ leaflet available at any Post Office® branch, on the Royal Mail website or in the United Kingdom Postal SchemeOpens in a new window (pdf, 540.65 KB)

Summary of definitions

"actual loss" Where an item is lost or damaged beyond repair then it is the amount it cost the customer to acquire, purchase or manufacture the item subject to adjustment to take account of condition, age and depreciationWhere an item is damaged it is the cost of repair. No additional payment will be made for the reduced value of the repaired item.
 "damage" If an item in a postal packet has suffered a degree of harm that reasonably impairs the material function or contents of the item,
 "evidence of posting"

Includes:

  • Original Certificate of posting (provided automatically for Royal Mail Signed for™ items and Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed™ (not posted on account) and available on request at Post Office® branches for other items);
  • Original Horizon certificate of posting;
  • Collect+ certificate of posting
  • Original SmartStamp® or on-line postage certificate of posting validated at a Post Office® branch;
  • The item with envelope or packaging, showing the postage paid. (For products where a certificate of posting is automatically provided this will also be required in addition to the item with envelope or packaging.)
 "1st Class services" means those services which are listed as Retail 1st Class in the table at Note 1 of the Annex to Condition 4 of the Licence, the Articles for the Blind service and the 1st Class Royal Mail Signed for™ service when used in conjunction with the Retail 1st Class services
 "the Licence" means the licence granted to Royal Mail under section 11 of the Act on 23 March 2001 as amended on 1 April 2003, 2 November 2005 and 25 May 2006.
 "loss" an item shall be deemed as lost if Royal Mail has not delivered it at the place to which it is addressed by the end of the fifteenth working day (or the tenth working day for Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™ (not posted on account) after its due date of delivery, unless there is evidence to the contrary to demonstrate that the item has not been lost.
 "part loss" Where an item is received and some or part of the content is missing.
 "postal address" means for any premises the address, including the postcode, maintained by Royal Mail from time to time as corresponding to those premises in the Postcode Address File,
 Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™(not posted on account) means, Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™ other than when sold to users having an account with Royal Mail buying the service using their account, i.e. services listed as Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™in the table at Note 1 of the Annex to Condition 4 of the Licence
 "2nd Class services" means those services which are listed as Retail 2nd Class in the table at Note 1 of the Annex to Condition 4 of the Licence and the 2nd Class Royal Mail Signed for™ service when used in conjunction with the Retail 2nd Class services

 

Message 4 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

Dear Thesmokinggrunner.

 

Thanks for your help and just for taking your time to help. Many thanks.

 

I will not copy again in the response the Royal Mail Policy for Special Delivery Service, since I already did in the prevouis response and it is really long, uncomprehensible and tediuos.

 

Although the experiences I described were related to Tracked 48 service, my question was actually related to Special Delivery Service, since as you perfectly explain, Tracked 48 is a completely useless service in terms of compensations once they fail to deliver, so I will never pay again for a service that does not honour the compensation its intented to provide.

 

My question is therefore addressed to understand if the Special Delivery Service really compensates the delivery failure based on the figures you have sold for in eBay, or based on all of these correlation of tricks that their policies collect, that basically, again, as you explained, covers just the original cost of the products, that in most of the cases is completely imposible to provide.

 

Many thanks again.

Message 5 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

You're very welcome, mitridate.

 

To be honest I didn't read your reply to Marco in its entirety - not just because it was longer than War and Peace but because, frankly, I don't think you can rely on anything in eBay's policies. When it comes to claiming for loss I'm pretty sure eBay would tell you to claim off the carrier - in this case, Royal Mail - rather than pay compensation themselves on the basis, if nothing else, that eBay was not responsible for delivering the item.

 

On your general point about compensation cover, as I mentioned previously RM24/RM48 cover is limited to £150. However, whilst the cost of Special Delivery includes cover up to £750 ( https://www.royalmail.com/sending/uk/special-delivery-guaranteed-1pm ) and cover can be increased up to £2,500 (at an additional cost), I am 99% sure that any claim for compensation would be limited to the original cost - and only then if you could provide proof of purchase cost - and not the sale price of the item.

 

If for example you purchased a coin for £100 and sold it for £400 but it was lost in the post, your compensation would be £100 but only if you could prove that you paid that amount when you purchased it. And if you cannot provide proof of purchase your compensation will be a book of 1st Class stamps, regardless of the amount of cover you have.

 

Royal Mail's page on compensation ( https://www.royalmail.com/retail-compensation-policy-loss ) sets out RM's policy on compensation and loss. It's fairly lengthy (though not as lengthy as eBay's...) and includes a fair amount of detail. Table 2 on that page relates to Special Delivery losses, though I would direct you to both Point No 7 - RM's requirement of proof for actual loss - and the link to a PDF detailing RM's liability to pay compensation in the paragraph just above the section headed 'Compensation Arrangements'.

 

Insurance is always a 'peace of mind' purchase: you pay for it and hope you won't need to claim on it; insurers, on the other hand, hope you purchase it without reading the small print. It is only when you actually need to claim that you find out just what is and isn't covered.

 

In terms of peace of mind when posting, regardless of compensation, I should think fewer Special Delivery items go missing than RM 24/48 items, if only because they're treated as more precious due to the postage cost paid. But whichever method of postage you choose you'd only be covered for actual loss, not the intrinsic value (that is, the sale price) of the item.

 

All the above may be too late to help with your recent losses but I hope it will be of some use to you in future.

 

Message 6 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

Compensation is limited to the lower figure of either original purchase price (to you) and sale price

 

And you have to prove BOTH

 

If you cannot prove your purchase price AND sale price  then they do not compensate you

 

Compensation policies try to exclude as many things as possible so they do not have to pay out, and of course they will sell you compensation that does not cover you, even if they know at the point of sale it does not cover your item...  

 

Not sure selling the items of this value is wise as buyers can do card chargebacks and get the full price of the item back up to 180 days after the sale - and there is NO protection for this for sellers, and you probably won't even get the item back

 

Can you afford to lose the sale price?

Message 7 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

Speak to Royal Mail but I believe if your coin is current legal tender you will need to use Special Delivery to be covered regardless.

 

I've always gone with the belief it's better to trust buyers to be honest and send coins as a 2nd Class letter for 85p where possible. I have sent coins up to £15/£20 value like that where the buyer is clearly decent. You'll save a fortune doing that or where needed giving RM a second chance with Tracked 48, damage or loss is fairly rare in my experience. 

Alternatively I've just been sent an email from Parcel2Go confirming the new Evri postable price is £2.39 with no insurance so they are starting to become more of an option to consider. 

Message 8 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

Just to add you could instead go with 2nd Class Signed For at £2.55. I don't particularly like it as buyers may not be home to sign. I'd definitely avoid Special Delivery for £20/£30 ish coins, buyers just won't pay it unless you underprice the coin to accommodate it. It just leaves you shortchanged on the sale I think and worse off in the long run.

Message 9 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

Many thanks for your comments and advise Techthread.
 
Of course I trust buyers, moreover when the Royal Main tracker clearly shows the product was lost, since this case was a Tracked 48. There is not doubt on this.
The thing is not about the delivery lost or stolen, the point is that RM does not pay compensations for so many items, so many, not just legal tender coins.
You need to dive into their complex policies to understand the detail once you suffer their compensation refusal.
I always use 2nd class upon to £20 compensation if the coin is under, and they compensate in stamps (funny), but over £20 coin, I was using Tracked 48 up to £150, until I have suffered a lost and they are refusing to pay for the compensation given this massive list of exceptions. Pretty much you can post nothing actually covered.
This is something that nobody knows and expect until happens.
 
My question is/was: Is Special Delivery Service up £2,500 actually covering the product independently what it is the category?. Or are actually T&V tricks to spare them the compensation?.
Again, I’m not able to find a clear response or text in their policies.
 
I probably look really tedious, but sincerely, the feeling of frustration and abandon from Royal Mail after these experiences is significant. I feel completely scammed from Royal Mail, and I’m scared to post valuable coins even through Special Delivery Service given the lack of honesty and clarity in theirs policies.

 

Message 10 of 11
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Re: Royal Mail lost,stolen delivery with Zero compensation on Tracked 48.

Trading Standards should demand that RM just go by valuables as those kinds of items (Coins, rings etc) as anything above £150. A £20 collectable/coin is not really valuable and should be compensated. It's not fair really. 

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