Would Brexit YES voters vote differently now???

Pound Stirling clearly in trouble and most definately effect ebay sales across the board.

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Would Brexit YES voters vote differently now???

It's common knowledge that Rangers fans are generally Protestants and Celtic fans are usually Catholics.  Apologies if I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, but this is generally what is implied by referring to which team you support...

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Firm

 

Rangers fans may have historically been more likely to feel aligned with the English, but that was because they were protestants, not because of which football team they supported.

 

Perhaps it's a comparison to avoid if you don't want to bring religion into it.

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Would Brexit YES voters vote differently now???


@rightgrand wrote:
 

Rangers fans may have historically been more likely to feel aligned with the English, but that was because they were protestants, not because of which football team they supported.

 


I strongly disagree with all of that. I personaly know loads of Scottish protestants who are staunchy pro independence and want nothing to do with London and England. I also know some Scottish catholics who want to remain part of Britain. Glasgow Rangers fans have always been pro British. They wave the British flag not the Scottish flag and they worship the British Royal family. Maybe that does involve religion up to a point but there is no way religion plays any part in the way the average Scot feels about independence. Football does because Glasgow Rangers supporters are the one identifiable sizeable demographic of the ordinary working class Scottish population who want their country to remain part of the UK.

 

PS I don't need any google links about the old firm. I lived in Scotland for 20 years and went to matches all over the country and still follow Scottish football to this day.

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Would Brexit YES voters vote differently now???

roxcalibur.........this isn't to you, I just clicked reply to the last post ( which happened to be yours ).

 

To be honest, unless you're Muslim, Irish, or trying to form a caliphate; I don't see why wanting independence should have any religious overtones at all.  Personally, I don't understand how a Country as small as ours; sees any merit in breaking itself into even smaller pieces.  To me that's just being extremely ignorant as to the ways of the World and courting vulnerability.  I'm English by birth, Welsh by blood and British when my back's against the wall.  I find the lack of human intelligence and mental evolution extremely depressing.  I would have hoped that we could have progressed away from this tribal mentality years ago.  Wanting your country to determine it's own future is one thing, but wanting each of it's regions to do the same; is another thing and quite frankly IMO is ridiculous.  I'm Welsh, I love Wales.......my heart and soul are there.  I also love Ireland and Scotland and spent years working up there in the oil business..........but it's not about being Welsh, or Scottish, or Irish, or English.....it's about what unites us ALL.......it's about being BRITISH !!!

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Would Brexit YES voters vote differently now???

It's not particularly about religion, i.e. going to church and singing hymns.  It's about the tribalism of belonging to a different sect, and it's related to what's gone on in Northern Ireland for years.

 

If you really think that it's coincidence that supporters of a football club have certain political beliefs, and that this has nothing to do with religion then you need to read up on the history of it all.  The blokes booting a ball around on the pitch are almost irrelevant really.

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@rightgrand wrote:

 

If you really think that it's coincidence that supporters of a football club have certain political beliefs, and that this has nothing to do with religion then you need to read up on the history of it all.  The blokes booting a ball around on the pitch are almost irrelevant really.


I don't need to read up on it at all. As I said I lived in Scotland for 20 years. I know all about the history of the old firm and all the tribalism and yes of course religion is a major part of all that. However my original point remains valid that Glasgow Rangers supporters are the one large demographic of Scots who want to remain part of the UK and that may involve religion as well as politics. However there is no way Scottish protestants who do not support Glasgow Rangers feel any need, either as a group or individually, to remain in the UK.

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Rox, I am an individual Scottish protestant as are many others who feel the need for Scotland to remain a part of the UK. That is why the vote was to remain part of the UK and nothing to do with religion, Glasgow Rangers or anything pertaining to either.

Some feel that neither Nicola Sturgeon nor SNP are capable of governing the country to the benefit of it. Who shouts for independence to more or less hand over the governing of a country to someone not even in the country and pays for the privilege of doing so, that is why the majority of the UK voted out and as part of the UK and the democratic policies, Nicola and the SNP should stand by it and not be screaming again for independence.

I know SNP want independence and that is their policy but I and many others do not want it and voted against it, so should our votes be disregarded by the SNP because the vote did not suit them ?

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What really makes me laugh is that Sturgeon wants independence but wants to join the EU!  What sort of independence would that be?  Probably much less independent than remaining part of the truly independent UK, making trade deals directly with the rest of the world instead of hiding inside the dying protectionist corpse that the EU is becoming. 

 

They also reckon they're going to use the £ as currency, which is laughably ill-educated garbage.  No independent country has ever used another country's currency, for very good reasons.

 

The UK's EU referendum was short on facts, but the Scottish Independence one was just based on dreams that nobody had actually thought through in any detail.

 

Personally, I believe that the apparent uprising of independence in Scotland is more to do with the failure of the Labour party than anything else.

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@rightgrand wrote:

What really makes me laugh is that Sturgeon wants independence but wants to join the EU!  What sort of independence would that be?  Probably much less independent than remaining part of the truly independent UK, making trade deals directly with the rest of the world instead of hiding inside the dying protectionist corpse that the EU is becoming. 

 

They also reckon they're going to use the £ as currency, which is laughably ill-educated garbage.  No independent country has ever used another country's currency, for very good reasons.

 

The UK's EU referendum was short on facts, but the Scottish Independence one was just based on dreams that nobody had actually thought through in any detail.

 

Personally, I believe that the apparent uprising of independence in Scotland is more to do with the failure of the Labour party than anything else.


Do you really think that Scotland will be able to make "trade deals directly with the rest of the world" or will these be made by a Conservative government - a party that managed to hold on to just one of its Parliamentary seats in Scotland at the last General Election and scraped just 22% of the vote in the elections for the Scottish Parliament.  Outside of the EU in terms of trade Scotland will have no more independence, (possibly less), in terms of making trade deals than it does as a member.

 

There are numerous countries that don't have their own currency and use other country's currency as legal tender.

 

Whilst Scotland is part of the UK it is not right to compare it with regions in the UK such as the North West, West country etc. - Scotland is a nation, just as much as England is a nation. 

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Lots of parts of the UK were once nations.  How far back do you want to go?  There was once Wessex, Mercia, Northumbria among many, many others.  Usually these various parts were taken over by others, usually with a war or two on the way.

 

There are big differences in culture, accent and scenery between almost any parts of the UK, but I don't think anyone seriously thinks there should be a Republic of Yorkshire or Surrey.

 

If Scotland got independence then what if the Highlands wants to split from the Lowlands?  What about the Republic of Orkney?

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I don't think there should be a republic of Yorkshire or Surrey either but there are millions who think that there may be a case for a Republic of Scotland, Wales, Ireland, (oops there already is!), whether they'd support such a split or not.  That is the point I was making when I posted that Scotland is not just a region of the UK but a country that is part of the UK.  

 

Equating Scotland with Yorkshire or Surrey is not a valid comparison.

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Personally, I'd like to see English independence.  That would stop the moaning.  Actually it wouldn't, as Scotland, Wales and N Ireland would quickly discover that they were broke without England's money.

 

The Barnet formula's always been very kind to Scotland...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29477233

 

 

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And where would England be without Welsh water? Remember Capel Celin? These tit for tat arguments are exactly what would happen if a perfectly good Union were to be broken up. We are the UNITED Kingdom.

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The Lake District's got plenty of water, just needs a few pipes.  Unless they become the People's Democratic Republic of Cumbria, in which case we'll need to import bottled water from France.

 

You're right - staying together is a pretty sensible solution.  I just wish there was a way of stopping the SNP wanting perpetual referendums - it's boring.

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Would Brexit YES voters vote differently now???

It's a bit like sorting out the " Tips " system in a restaurant. You either collect ALL the tips together, at the end of the day and share them out equally; or everybody keeps the tips they are given. If they keep the tips they are given, it produces the usual arguments.  The harder workers, who do more and treat the customers the best; get the most tips. If they were shared out equally, that group would complain that there was no incentive for them to be the way they are; when the lazy, good for nothing ones got the same tips. If they got to keep the tips they were given, the poor person washing up all the dirty pots and pans ( and arguably working the hardest of the lot ) would get nothing. Yet, without clean pots,pans and dishes, there would be no food to serve the customers with and nobody would get ANY tips. The waitresses, waiters, chef, pot cleaner, etc. etc. could always leave and see if they could do better somewhere else, but it would be naive in the extreme to think that every restaurant isn't confronted with the same conundrum. To run a successful restaurant, EVERYBODY has to pull their weight; be part of the whole, think about their fellow workers and share in the success. It's also no good winging about the boss having an easy life, he's the one who took the chance, put the money in ( possibly remortgaging his house to do it ) and possibly had many a sleepless night in the early days of the business ( you want to take that road, then you too can be the boss ) . Whether, by chance, you happen to be the one sitting on a sea of oil, a gold mine, or some other benefit of nature........before you start crowing too loudly, remember the infrastructure needed to turn that into the clothes on your back; will require the talents of many others.........all of which are talents you might WILL not have.  Success or failure, hinges on what you KNOW you can do; not on what you THINK you can do.

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The perfect argument for a United States of Europe 🙂

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I guess people will read what they want to read into anything. My last sentence about knowing what you can do, not just thinking you can do something; is no better demonstrated, than if you have already done something in the past. If you have done it once, you can do it again.......before the EU / Common Market, we traded comparatively freely with the rest of the world; so we're not exactly delving into the unknown............are we !

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Would Brexit YES voters vote differently now???

It's all a question of balance.  Taking things to extremes, we could make the EU a country, then perhaps amalgamate it with the US and others to make a global state.  Alternatively, we could make each village a republic, like in the olden days, and have wars with the neighbouring village.

 

To my mind, the UK makes sense because, for starters, we (almost) all speak the same language.  I know there are some people who speak Welsh, but everyone knows that they only speak Welsh when there are English people within earshot and they want to talk about them.  Some Scots are trying to revive Gaelic too, but they're only doing that so that they can moan about the English too.

 

The EU could never function as a state due to the language barrier.  The EU requires armies of translators, and everyone has to wear headsets.  It's impossible to have a natural debate about anything.  Written or translated words don't convey tone in the same way as talking directly to someone who understands your language.  Some reading this might think that I think that Welsh people only speak Welsh to annoy the English, just because they can't tell that I'm not actually being serious.

 

I reckon though that if a region of the UK wants to go it alone then we shouldn't stand in their way.  But this has already been resolved for Scotland - the Scottish people decided to stay.  You can't have a rethink every time something changes.  The same arguments apply as for the EU referendum - if you have another referendum then when do you stop?  If Scotland voted leave then it all appeared to go badly for a few years then should they get another vote to rejoin the UK?  Can they then vote to leave again?  In-out-shake-it-all-about.

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I also didn't quite have the intention that the owner of the restaurant should be living in another country and telling you what customers you should be allowing in. If he wants to do that, perhaps he / she should be running a restaurant in their own country and helping the economy and job market of their own people............but then what is a mercenary, if not somebody who lets money buy their patriotism.

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P.S.  and that's a thin line to tread, because you'd be giving excuses for selling your soul next !!

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