Would Brexit YES voters vote differently now???

[iconic-football-gaa-rugby-american-sports-shirts]

Pound Stirling clearly in trouble and most definately effect ebay sales across the board.

[cee-dee]

It seems to me that what the EU want is to charge import duties on our stuff and expect us to accept their stuff tariff free.

Mind you, they could level the same criticism at us?

I don't see why "Trade agreements" are needed, a simple agreement to trade should be all it takes. We, (as the general public) don't need trade agreements to buy things, we choose which businesses we wish to patronise.

I've never understood why anyone would think that a massive, ever increasing bureaucracy like the EU was a good idea. I would have thought that a massive reduction in bureaucracy was a better idea.

Why does anyone need to "pay in"? All it seems to do is to feed the insatiable beast? If a country "gets something out of the EU", that means someone else has paid in to it. What for? Why pay in to such a scheme? It's not good business to continue to pay in to something that's just a drain on finances with little or no return.

[rightgrand]

The degree of EU involvement has messed up all kinds of things.  I remember milk being 20p+ a pint about 30 years ago.  Now it's £1 for 4 pints - the same price, despite lots of inflation.  Dairy farmers are selling the stuff for less than the cost of the feed for the cows - not because they're charitable but because this qualifies them for a massive subsidy from the EU.

Our choices will be to either:

• Give the farmers subsidies and continue the EU-style expensive state-controlled madness, taxing the poor population to hand it to rich land-owners
• Accept the cheap milk from the EU and let our farmers all go out of business
• Allow farmers/supermarkets to charge the actual market price (perhaps £2 for a 4-pint bottle) and protect UK farmers from artificially cheap subsidised milk from the EU by slapping a big amount of import duty on it - which would enrage the EU and probably start a trade war, where they'd slap a big tax on something we export.  This could also lead to complaints about food poverty too, as people would need to pay the actual price for the first time, not a false taxpayer-subsidised one

Just one example of the sort of knots we will need to untie as we get out of it all.  I reckon it's going to be very difficult to trade with the EU if we don't just comply with their every wish and continue as before.

[vsmusic2010]

Milk is a good example of how the EU affects us.   One of the reasons milk is so cheap now is that the EU has banned exports to Russia because of its support for Ukraine.  EU countries used to export a lot of milk, they now have to dump it largely in the EU, hence oversupply, reduced prices and farmers going bust.

As in independent country we could decide these things for ourselves knowing what the impact would be on our home market before we decided to make a change instead of having unelected officials in another country make decisions for us.

[vsmusic2010]

Trade agreements are not necessary, we have traded with the US and others for years without one.  It's a bit of a red herring really.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@vsmusic2010 wrote:

Trade agreements are not necessary, we have traded with the US and others for years without one.  It's a bit of a red herring really.

---

Not so - we have traded with the US on tariff rates agreed between the EU and the US via numerous agreements as well as WTO rules.

Exit from the EU does now mean that we can agree new deals with the US which hopefully will at least be as good as our current ones, but there is no guarantee - especially with Trump at the helm!

[rightgrand]

Taking milk as a good example, if we decided to slap a 100% import duty on milk from the EU, to make its cost similar to what a UK non-subsidised farmer could produce it for, I can't imagine that they'd accept that without retalliating in some way.

The problem is that - in or out of the EU - they're still going to be our biggest trading partner.  I reckon it's going to be a complete mess for years, mainly due to the EU's absolute arrogance.  They actually have rules against state subsidy of industry, while at the same time paying farmers to give their produce away for next to nothing.

[mikes*corvettes]

"Central banks are dumping euros amid concerns over political instability, weak growth and the European Central Bank’s negative interest rate policy — and favour sterling as a long-term, stable alternative. "

https://www.ft.com/content/692768f4-17a3-11e7-a53d-df09f373be87

[j_uk643]

Bit like the ukip spokesperson who said they had done less well in certain areas because the electorate were 'better educated' in those areas. gosh


I seem to recall Farage was a former Tory


puts on best Al Murray voice

But it is a well known scientific fact, that cannot be argued with, that the EU is stuffed full of drunken, power-crazed eurocrats, desperate to force us brits, to eat euro square bananas, despite us having won the war all on our own.It's a liberty, thats wot it is !
As another 'proper brit' on social media observed, 'think of Richard the 1st, Richard the lionheart, a true and proper Englishman' !
Who just happened to have been a plantagenet, and spent the odd day or two here as an adult, with an eye to selling or plundering
Or our own very English monarchs who have been mainly drawn from France, Germany, Netherlands, Scotland, with a few exceptions such as the interregnum period.Some never spoke English at all during their reign. Forrins, refusing to integrate wot.

The EU along with others placed mainly financial sanctions on Russia re it's annexation of crimea and sevastapol
Putin responded by restricting agricultural imports etc from those countries.
Unfortunately global oversupply of milk or other products, regardless of trade sanctions tends to cause falling prices in a free market
Reports indicate China is in the process of establishing a 100k dairy herd unit, a far cry from the average largely small-scale dairy herd of a few hundred here in the uk
You could ban or put a prohibitive tax on such imports.The net effect would probably preserve domestic herds, and substantially raise domestic prices, of milk and foodstuffs
This isn't hard to work out




Im wondering why the world is governed by so many trade agreements, when in fact they aren't needed according to some- it's spooky
Oh I know, the world hasn't consulted the combined wisdom on RT -surely that must be the answer?


LOL
It also states While central bankers said they would become more cautious about investing in the pound over the next few years, ie when the UK exits the EU, for the next 2 years plus, the uk remains within the EU.The UK STILL has the advantage of being within the EU
The ECB has a primary policy of negative interest rates and other schemes, whilst the UK mainly try to change investment choices by a QE policy and rates here may rise, short term that may give scope for some speculation. Meanwhile Trump can't seem to even pass his flagship policy on healthcare even with a majority in both houses.


But I expect this global currency 'support' for sterling though is shown in more concrete terms by the $/£ exchange rate - oh wait a mo, it's significantly devalued post brexit lol
HSBC suggesting cable to be around 1.10 by the end of 2017, parity on UK leaving the EU
bet those long term investors can't wait

[rightgrand]

I did enjoy Farage today saying that the EU were behaving like the mafia.  Spot-on, nail-on-head.  The EU rep bloke did say something in response, so was clearly rattled by it.  Perhaps they'll think before their next burst of attempted power-mad bullying.

I'm not sure how well Farage would do as a negotiator (probably not very), but as someone shouting from the sidelines he can be very helpful at times, just to cut through the diplomatic carp and say it how it is.

[j_uk643]

Farage is just there for himself, and a soundbite.

He said when asked quite a few years ago now, how much he had claimed in allowances and expenses from the EU.

Must be millions - he concluded unabashed. He declined to have those audited.

His main interest is women. In war time Britain he would have been selling black market stockings with a free fitting service.

You may not be able to fool all of the people all of the time, but he knows you can fool a considerable number, for a considerable amount of time.

[mikes*corvettes]

---

@j_uk643 wrote:

Farage is just there for himself,

---

Do you think the rest of the MEP's and the EU's hierarchy do it because they love us ?

[joe_bloggs*]

Just been launched for Brexit :

[j_uk643]

This extract from an interview recorded by the FPA was conducted in 2009, some 8 years or so ago


When asked about his expenses and allowances since becoming an MEP Farage commented

"It is a vast sum," Farage said. "I don't know what the total amount is but - oh lord - it must be pushing £2 million."

Farage insisted that he had not "pocketed" the money but had used the "very large sum of European taxpayers' money" to help promote Ukip's message that the UK should get out of the EU.

When asked later by the Observer to justify how he could claim so much while running a campaign attacking Westminster MPs for their extravagance, Farage was unapologetic, saying that, while MEPs were "very expensive", he was entirely happy that the money had been used for the best of causes."



Farage and others were even recently under investigation over their expenses
His use of expenses and allowances are widely documented -a small selection of them


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/01/nigel-farage-among-ukip-meps-accused-of-misusing-eu...

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/politics/nigel-farage-faces-fresh-expenses-scandal-...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-expenses-storm-ukip-6377358

http://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-expenses-claims-are-erroneous-10409538

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3568601/Farage-s-15-000-day-bodyguards-taxpayer-Ukip-leader-...


The EFDD which he chairs also receives EU funding of several million
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-ukip-eu-funding-right-wing-european-parli...

[rightgrand]

Farage's point was always that the MEPs received stupid amounts of money for doing very little, and the publicly stated strategy was that they'd get as many MEPs as possible and use this money from the EU to campaign against the EU (what a beautiful irony!).  There's therefore nothing to worry about in the fact that they claimed lots of money - this is exactly what the UKIP MEPs were elected to do, by the public with their approval of this tactic.

The big differences between UKIP MEPs and other MEPs are that anyone's actually heard of them and that they've actually achieved what they promised to do.  The UK has 73 MEPs, all of which get a vast salary plus expenses.  The good news is that we won't be paying any more money for them to stick their snouts into in a couple of years' time.

If you want to flag up expenses-swigging MEPs then the chapagne-socialist Kinnock family (as in Neil, the ex-labour leader) are the place to look...

Lord & Lady Kinnock's £10m Euro gravy train

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/107438/Lord-Lady-Kinnock-s-10m-Euro-gravy-train

[j_uk643]

They are just 'working within' to topple the EU by highlighting it's alleged gravytrain, by taking a first class ticket on it with second helpings.
obvious innit lol.

The facts are that you don't know how they spent certain allowances because despite Farage boastfully claiming he would welcome an independent audit of his expenses and allowances,he later 'reverse ferreted' on that promise, stating that he thought it would unfairly single him out, despite other parties, including Labour, signing up to such an audit.

Of course one might also be a tad cynical and suggest the best way to highlight a perceived 'problem' is to throw light on it, not tainting yourself by participating, and shoving your nose further in the trough and then when caught, claiming it was all for the good of the country
I fully expect if they decide to rob banks to finance ukip after brexit, they will be maintaining they were just doing it to demonstrate the lack of security for the depositors, not for personal gain, obviously.






And talking of illegality and notoriety I guess some or all of the following were just trying to bring down the EU from within to draw attention to possible corruption eh, and should be applauded.

Former ukip MEP Tom Wise,an ex policeman who pleaded guilty to charges of expense fraud and was sentenced to two years.The trial judge said Wise had set about to deliberately defraud the EU almost as soon as he was elected.Obviously the judge failed to recognise his valuable work in exposing the bigger picture
Or former vocal critic of EU fraud, elected ukip MEP later non-iscrit Ashley Mote who was also jailed for fraud, who the judge described as 'truly dishonest' over some half a million fraudulent claims. Or Nicky Sinclaire transgender former ukip MEP charged with expense offences, and later acquitted. Her defence was that of negligence/or deliberate falsification of documents after a very bitter dispute with Farage and divorce from ukip who she accused of deeply offensive homophobic, racist views and malpractice
Her former office aide, Ison a ukip worker admitted sending an email re Sinclaire about her which said 'ok plan B -fraud'
Or Janice Atkinson MEP who was expelled from the party over allegations of expenses fraud, but still sat with Farages consent in the EFD group
Then there's the ukip member who subsequently defected to the Conservative party the company he ran was allegedly raided over allegations of the use of 7 illegal immigrants and expense irregularities
another delicious irony perhaps?
Then there's the EU investigating ukip over some alleged £400,000 of misspent election funding of its own party

Maybe the £15,ooo a day cost of Farage's own personal bodyguards paid for via the taxpayer and so essential to make sure he has 'refreshments' and to hold an umbrella over his head on every sunny day. Despite a police presence but with not a single protester in sight, in premises used amongst other things as a strip joint.
Vital to keep ones eye on the bigger picture wot


LOL




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-electoral-commission-european-parliament-...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3008601/Ukip-Euro-MP-expenses-fiddle-axed-High-profile-elect...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/11/former-ukip-mep-nikki-sinclaire-cleared-expenses-fr...

[rightgrand]

Yawn.  Political party contains corrupt members shocker!  Wow - I'm blown away (not).

Has there ever been a political party that hasn't contained people who've fiddled expenses or has behaved anything less than perfectly?  The answer's no by the way.

This is just a straw man argument - you seem to be suggesting that if people within UKIP are less than perfect then that's a good reason to stay in the corrupt, rotten-to-the-core, extremely expensive, empire-building EU.  Thankfully, the electorate clearly don't see the world in this distorted way.

If nobody voted for a party that included anyone imperfect then nobody could vote for anything, ever!

[lancashireseals2013]

UKIP have been the most succesful party in recent history.

Achieving exactly what they set out to achieve.

Whether you like them or not you cannot argue with that.

Bring on Sir Nigel

Blue and red are no bastions of truth and honour.

Thanet for the tories and Rotherham for Labour

......and who will be investigating the EU for their frivolous waste of  the tax payers money.OUR money

[j_uk643]

The suggestion by Farage has been that ukip is different to expense-fiddling MPs, when facts actually indicate that far from being different, they are some of the worst offenders.

The 'defence' such that it isn't, appears to be this is ok, as long as they claim to be anti-EU, then pretty much anything goes and is acceptable

That's the 'brave not-so-new world' is it? lol

Doesn't seem to be the electorates choice as far as the kippers are concerned, since they failed to win but a single MP last election, despite several Tory defections, even poor Nigel has stood for the uk parliament some 7 times, but failed at every attempt.Still, better luck next time eh ?

But it's a power/sovereignty thing right?
I wouldn't disagree with a view previously stated on here, paraphrasing, namely if some voted on 'immigration' issues, or more precisely movement of labour within the EU, they may get something out of it all, though probably far less than they expect, and at some cost
If it's about some notion of sovereignty/power/democracy then it's largely misplaced, but a fantasy some clearly cherish

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@rightgrand wrote:

Yawn.  Political party contains corrupt members shocker!  Wow - I'm blown away (not).

Has there ever been a political party that hasn't contained people who've fiddled expenses or has behaved anything less than perfectly?  The answer's no by the way.

. . . . . . . . . 

If nobody voted for a party that included anyone imperfect then nobody could vote for anything, ever!

---

That's not true though, is it?

You don't have to vote for a party - you shouldn't vote for a party - elections are designed to allow you to vote for people NOT parties.

It is the party system that is corrupt.

[upthecreekyetagain]

The major party candidates aren't even being chosen by the local selection committees for this election - because of the "short notice" of the general election, candidates are being chosen by the central party apparatus.   So we'll end up with even less connection between MPs and those they are supposed to represent and greater control by the parties over how they will cast their votes in Parliament.

We say the UK is a democracy - we're not!