OK, in or out?

[cee-dee]

How about an RT poll?

No reasons, no argument, no debate just a straightforward IN or OUT.

Me? OUT.

[evoman3957]

A paragraph from " wikipedia "........I see a lot of similarities, instead of control being exercised from Rome; substitute Brussels. When Rome expanded their "Empire", countries ( although initially conquered ) were " absorbed " into the Empire and became an extension of Rome; their peoples governed under the same laws as all Roman citizens.

The Roman Empire was among the most powerful economic, cultural, political and military forces in the world of its time. It was the largest empire of the classical antiquity period, and one of the largest empires in world history. At its height under Trajan, it covered 5 million square kilometers[2][4] and held sway over some 70 million people, at that time 21% of the world's entire population. The longevity and vast extent of the empire ensured the lasting influence of Latin and Greek language, culture, religion, inventions, architecture, philosophy, law and forms of government on the empire's descendants. Throughout the European medieval period, attempts were even made to establish successors to the Roman Empire, including the Crusader state, the Empire of Romania and the Holy Roman Empire. By means of European expansionism through the Spanish, French, Portuguese, Dutch, Italian, Russian, German, British and Belgian empires, Greco-Roman culture was spread on a worldwide scale, playing a significant role in the development of the modern world.

[mikes*corvettes]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Finally I'm confused by your final statement - which country is the 'future full member' you refer to?

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In 1974 Turkey invaded Cyprus and is holding a third of the island.

Now you're big on human rights what about  the human rights of the Cypriots who got murdered during this illegal invasion or the human rights of the Cypriots who forty one years later are still not allowed back to their homes or access to their own land.

Or that the Turks looted all of the Churches cut off all the crosses on  top of them and use the churches to stable animals now.

This is recent history not ancient history.

This is not what I signed up to forty three years ago when we joined the common market, I was told it was just a trading partnership not that we were handing over not only our future but also our descendants futures to faceless bureaucrats.

The sooner we're out the better as far as I'm concerned, we were around and survived a long time before this nonsense started and we will be around and survive after it's gone to the wall, now it's just a matter of damage limitation.

[evoman3957]

Added to that, of course, is the fact that the longer this goes on and the bigger this monster grows......the worse the inevitable collapse will be ( a bit like the Roman Empire ). So getting out NOW and building up our own standing / commercial connections and liaisons, will give us a great deal of an advantage, when the inevitable collapse comes and all those countries are cast to the wind. They won't be backing each other up then, they'll be too busy fighting for their own survival. I'm not being short sighted, in thinking that this will happen in the next 5 to 10 years even; I'm thinking about my Grandchildren and their Children. That sort of collapse is inevitably accompanied by conflict / War and they're going to be doing well to survive that.

[evoman3957]

Everything, throughout the history of mankind, that has grown too big, has eventually collapsed; either by imploding, or by causing a War. The only thing that has mastered magnitude, is mother nature, time & fate.

[jd.linklater]

If the country votes to remain in the EU and Turkey later become a member I think I'll be looking for another continent to spend my retirement.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

Added to that, of course, is the fact that the longer this goes on and the bigger this monster grows......the worse the inevitable collapse will be ( a bit like the Roman Empire ). So getting out NOW and building up our own standing / commercial connections and liaisons, will give us a great deal of an advantage, when the inevitable collapse comes and all those countries are cast to the wind. They won't be backing each other up then, they'll be too busy fighting for their own survival. I'm not being short sighted, in thinking that this will happen in the next 5 to 10 years even; I'm thinking about my Grandchildren and their Children. That sort of collapse is inevitably accompanied by conflict / War and they're going to be doing well to survive that.

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The period following our 'membership' of the Roman Empire was called the Dark Ages for a very good reason

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Finally I'm confused by your final statement - which country is the 'future full member' you refer to?

---

In 1974 Turkey invaded Cyprus and is holding a third of the island.

Now you're big on human rights what about  the human rights of the Cypriots who got murdered during this illegal invasion or the human rights of the Cypriots who forty one years later are still not allowed back to their homes or access to their own land.

Or that the Turks looted all of the Churches cut off all the crosses on  top of them and use the churches to stable animals now.

This is recent history not ancient history.

This is not what I signed up to forty three years ago when we joined the common market, I was told it was just a trading partnership not that we were handing over not only our future but also our descendants futures to faceless bureaucrats.

The sooner we're out the better as far as I'm concerned, we were around and survived a long time before this nonsense started and we will be around and survive after it's gone to the wall, now it's just a matter of damage limitation.

---

My knowledge of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is somewhat sketchy albeit my son-in-law is a Greek Cypriot.

However didn't the 'invasion' by Cyprus follow on from a coup by the Greek Cypriots and the attempted annexation of Cyprus by Greece?

Events that had both been members of the EU as it is today would have been unlikely to occur.

We were all told that we were joining a trading partnership in the 70s and I agree that the EU as it is today is not relevant to what it was then, which is why the forthcoming referendum is welcome.

Of course just because it is different is not a reason in itself for leaving nor an argument for staying in.

If Europe were clearly moving towards a democratic federal union then I would find that attractive, my fear is that it is rather moving towards a monolithic organisation of independent states which appoint members to a council that decides wha's best for us.

[5129frederick]

I'm sorry, CD - you've lost it if you wanted a straight IN/OUT vote.  ROTF!  You should know better that to try for a straight show of hands

The last few threads have diversified to such a degree it's now taking in Cyprus and the Roman Empire!!!  

For the record, (unless you've packed up and gone home in dispair) how many are out and how many are in?

[jd.linklater]

Last count.....

22 Out

4 In

6 Undecided

[evoman3957]

So we got a result AND managed to have a conversation about it.....................Wow !!

[upthecreekyetagain]

So there would have been 31 replies and a dead thread 🙂

[evoman3957]

That's a anagram of Death Adder..........Oooo Errrrr !!

[jd.linklater]

33 replies in total but one is still doing the hokey cokey 

[mikes*corvettes]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

However didn't the 'invasion' by Cyprus Turkey follow on from a coup by the Greek Cypriots and the attempted annexation of Cyprus by Greece?

---

Actually it was America that staged the coup for reasons that I wont go in to, Sampson the so called replacement for Makarios was on the CIA payroll.

I don't know how old your son in law is or if he knows anything about this but if you can when you have time sit down with your daughters in-laws and have a chat with them, I'm sure they will have a lot to say especially if they were displaced by the invasion.

While Turkey still illegally occupies another EU country they should never be allowed to join.

It's like inviting Israel and Palestine to join the same chamber of commerce.

[5129frederick]

I know Cyprus well.  I was out there as a child between '48 & '59 with the EOKA - pronounced IOKA at it's most active.  When we first went out there we had to refuel overrnight in Turkey - The Daks couldn't make it on a full tank of fuel!  Laughable by today's standards where flying time it takes just two and a quarter hours.  I was six months old when I went out there and came back when I was ten so part of my schooling was done out there, the other part in the UK.  Like kids growing up in Northern Ireland, I grew up with tanks  and Tommy guns on every street corner and the deafening scream of Hawker Hunters on high speed low altitude manouvers.  With week-long curfews it was little wonder my schooling went to pot.  Although there was tension we made the most of it with virtually every weekend seeing us at Kyrenia or Famagusta.  My late father worked for BEA - British European Airways, for the ten years we were out there.  

I have been all over the Far East but Cyprus holds it's fondest memories which is the one reason I would never go back.  The Kyrenia I remember was s simple fishing port with it's fort.  If I returned tomorrow I would see a very different Cyprus where urbanisation would have reared it's ugly head and seaside ports would have been swamped out by holiday hotels, half of them bombed out.  The Cyprus I knew would be shattered forever whereas my memories will last a lifetime and at my age, memories are all I need.  Long live the dream.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

However didn't the 'invasion' by Cyprus Turkey follow on from a coup by the Greek Cypriots and the attempted annexation of Cyprus by Greece?

---

Actually it was America that staged the coup for reasons that I wont go in to, Sampson the so called replacement for Makarios was on the CIA payroll.

I don't know how old your son in law is or if he knows anything about this but if you can when you have time sit down with your daughters in-laws and have a chat with them, I'm sure they will have a lot to say especially if they were displaced by the invasion.

While Turkey still illegally occupies another EU country they should never be allowed to join.

It's like inviting Israel and Palestine to join the same chamber of commerce.

---

The more I read about the situation the more I tend to agree with you - neither the USA nor even more so the UK behaved in the best interests of Cyprus and must bear a great deal of the blame for the current setup.

Fortunately despite their machinations neither the US nor the UK managed to force Cyprus to give up their right to veto, as an EU member, the accession of any new member.  Turkey's wish to join the EU and the support for this from both the US and the UK may provide the best hope for a peaceful and a just settlement for Cyprus and Geek and Turkish Cypriots.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/cyprus-gets-assurances-on-turkey-from-eu-leaders-1.24037...

[john.b74]

I still say OUT of the EU

[upthecreekyetagain]

You still only get one vote

[evoman3957]

But boy will it count, because there won't be some self seeking egotist with a "Veto" to screw it up for everybody else; as all these dysfunctional organisations have.

[astrologica]

The semantics of Turkey/Greece/Cyprus history don't really matter here...what we have to ask ourselves is..do we want millions more people having the right to come to Britain to live and work if Turkey is allowed to join the EU? It's no good saying ' oh, but they won't all come'.....Tony Blair vastly underestimated how many Romanians would come. Look what happened then.