Ebay's response to Post Offices who refuse Simple Delivery packages with the wrong label on them

[wintersdawn1]

This was Ebay's response in the chat today:

[andha-21]

@kath3735_wxmjn 

Come on. You know they are just trying to get what is being said out there, so more can see.

The more I look and think about it though, all I see is a trap.

For Standard they are quoting 2-3 day delivery to the buyers. When I checked loads of BIN listings on Sunday the exact dates shown were 2-3 April.

But they are telling sellers we have a 3 day turnaround and that's using Royal Mail 48 Tracked or equivalent Evri.

So we don't have 3 days. We'd have to dispatch next day at the latest to have the slimmest chance of making those dates.

Now we find out Post Office won't accept their bs labels every time. A delay caused by eBay.

& as the contract of sale is now directly between buyer and seller if we don't deliver with the terms eBay have agreed with the buyer we make them liable to claims.

They used to sanction us for late delivery even when they weren't liable.

What have they got planned for us now that they are?

I suppose people could choose to view all this as a series of mistakes. I'm not seeing that. This looks deliberate and it's been developed by some seriously sneaky people.

[lucy_farmer]

'I suppose people could choose to view all this as a series of mistakes. I'm not seeing that.'

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I've tried to see all the carp as a series of mistakes; you know.... a huge company , all different depts having different 'good' ideas just not all meshing together very well.... a sort of left-hand doesn't know what the right-hand is doing problem!

I'm starting to change my mind.

Next daft thing I've just noticed is the chart of different sizes for simple delivery parcels.

Each of those sizes has examples of items that would fit well in that sized 'delivery'.

And all of the larger sizes, from 1KG upwards, have ay least one 'example' item that is on the 'exclusion list'.

I.e. uninsured. (and not covered by ebay because they don't comply with the carriers terms)

Are you really going to send your smartphone/tablet/computer monitor/ etc uninsured for damage *or* loss because the buyer chose Evri ? And ebay are actually telling you that service is ideal for that item??

This is nuts.

[theelench]

I haven't followed the exact details of SD because I have no intention of sending anything to anyone using it.

But from what you say above:

"We'd have to dispatch next day at the latest to have the slimmest chance of making those dates"

&  "This looks deliberate and it's been developed by some seriously sneaky people"

So ebay's insistence all last year, that I post same / next day (RM 2nd Class) and the item should arrive one or two days after purchase WAS "working as intended" when you add SD to ebay's dodgy delivery dates it does work perfectly.  Doesn't that mean that this 💩 was just over the horizon at least a year ago when FDD's were introduced?

Doesn't it follow that this was nothing to do with Vinted, or getting an influx of new private sellers to prop-up businesses falling sales?  Fantasy Delivery Dates and associated penalties were just the lead-up to taking control of and making profits from postage and deliveries?  So ebay has been planning exactly this for well over a year.

[andha-21]

@theelench 

Yes.

As I've said elsewhere, the first massive red flag I saw was when they allowed sellers to opt out of Royal Mail.

That was a huge warning signal.

They are the only courier with full UK coverage.

If you get a buyer in Isle of Wight, what are Evri going to do?

Leave it in the ferry terminal in Portsmouth?

That's just one example. There will be many more valid ones.

& as I keep thinking it through I've seen another quite glorious & incredibly sneaky possibility they have now.

If I'm right in my premise that we can make eBay liable for claims if we do not fulfill their terms of sale with the buyer, that potentially means they could sue us for damages.

I'm not saying they will, just could.

But this is the beautiful part. They don't even have to use their own money to do that. They can use our own withheld funds against us.

So we pay them to sue us.

I've been attacking that in my head for over an hour now, can't find a breach in it yet. So far it seems logically sound.

If so I tip my hat off to whoever designed this. That is hands down the smartest/sneakiest thing I've ever seen come out of eBay.

Naughty, but so so cunning.

[aphystykqa]

The more posts / comments / information I read about Ebay's WORST decision ever by them mandatory Forcing this so-called 'Simple Delivery' upon us in just (12 days time) - the more I HATE it !! - and that Hate shall get bigger and bigger and shall snowball out of control in the UK, since it's only the UK population which has been targeted so far, and only the Private Sellers, so Ebay the company obviously Despises us the Most.

The Manchester Evening News newspaper covered it yesterday, as MOST Haters have taken to Reddit, and they are foaming at their mouths in absolute Rage - like most of us are

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/ebay-sellers-say-they-done-31334112

I had absolutely no choice but to remove all by items I had for sale on Ebay, which is the last thing I thought I would ever ever do, as I have been a loyal Ebayer since 2003, so 22 years later, it all came to this. That Straw That Broke The Camel's Back (as some what say).

I mostly sell Vinyl records, and Evri company terms and conditions state that there is no compensation for loss or damage to vinyl records. Near the end of their lengthy exclusion list it states :- Memorabilia, Photographs, Signed Items and Vinyl Records.

It is also noteworthy how originally Ebay when pushing harder for Simple Delivery was not going to use The Royal Mail as an option, but then thought about it and changed their minds to add the Royal Mail as another option. Well, just imagine if they hadn't have done that. Would Ebay have informed us about Evri's own compensation exclusion list ?? - hmm, I highly doubt it. So, as I generally only sell Vinyl records valuing £80 to £700 through this site, then I certainly was never gong to risk it. Especially once I learnt about how bad Evri is with it's compensation policy. You see, it's not just Evri's compensation issues. It's how their delivery drivers choose to operate. They basically arrive in their car/van to your home, and then knock your door, and leave the parcel on your door-step/mat, and then get back into their vehicle and drive off. You then get an e-mail saying your parcel has arrived, and that's it. So, if you are out when they come and it rains, or someone sees it and steals it, then your screwed. 

[lucy_farmer]

'Would Ebay have informed us about Evri's own compensation exclusion list ??'

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I've been thinking  about the 'exclusion list problem' since the details of Simple Del. were first put up.

I've also been convinced that ebay would do something logical, business-like and helpful... like have lists of items that are *excluded* from Simple delivery -so the seller can choose Special Delivery; the only service that insures stuff that needs it.

These excluded categories matching the 'exclusion list' categories of the delivery services...... 

Well, that hasn't happened.

Surely ebay wouldn't be forcing people to send uninsured....? Really....??

(This is one of the things that's changing my mind about ebay's intentions for private sellers. ...I don't think they want us anymore 😢)

[suelel1968]

Hi, i have been messaging the Post Office on Facebook and they have no clue about how to deal with this. They suggest, use a post box or a depot or collect+ sites which i have never heard of and i suspect looking at where they are they supplement areas where there is not a close by PO.

marco@ebay 

If anyone wants to carry on selling it might be a good Idea to message the PO on FB messenger as well

[akemp1]

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@aphystykqa wrote:

You see, it's not just Evri's compensation issues. It's how their delivery drivers choose to operate. They basically arrive in their car/van to your home, and then knock your door, and leave the parcel on your door-step/mat, and then get back into their vehicle and drive off. You then get an e-mail saying your parcel has arrived, and that's it. So, if you are out when they come and it rains, or someone sees it and steals it, then your screwed. 

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Worse Evri don't just say your parcel has arrived they lie that it's in a 'safe place' when as you say it's basically been dumped by in full view of everyone. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to drive home from work in my lunch break to sort out something valuable Evri have left in full view when RM always go to the effort of hiding it somewhere.

Ebay and Evri are a perfect match as they both treat buyers and sellers like rubbish and consistently put their own commercial interests first like any other self respecting bad company would.

We don't have to put up with this and should vote with our feet. I am still on 'buying strike' and this weekend I will finally be signing up elsewhere and starting to move my listings away from ebay.

I haven't listed anything new since the SD announcement and don't intend to.

[akemp1]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

Surely ebay wouldn't be forcing people to send uninsured....? Really....??

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Sure they would - time to stop presuming they might be looking out for our interests.

It's turned into dog eat dog now, sadly.

[wintersdawn1]

I'm also reminded about eBay openly working with scammers via packlink that scam sender's by making up bogus charges saying a package was too long/heavy etc.

As long as eBay make money they will work hand in hand with anyone, even the most unscrupulous.

[andha-21]

Don't forget YouLend too.

[wintersdawn1]

I'm not aware of YouLend, what happened there?

[deanem72]

its all on business sellers board,  good read if you have half an hour spare

[andha-21]

The asswipes tried to do it to me too.

But luckily I spotted their clause from hell and told them to get stuffed.

[moldosgifts]

All i can say is this weeks chat was a complete car crash of misinformation.

Yes they have a contract with royal mail, but the post office will refuse mislabelled packages, they could not understand the difference.

This reminds when i had 3 post deleted from the chat for baiting when all i was doing was asking what they are doing about private businesses which are the scourge of the site.

The copy paste response we cannot share individual details for privacy "der that was not my question" i was asking in a general sense what are you doing can we see the figures ,

Any way slightly off topic.

Good luck with SD your all going to need it, I cannot see it going smoothly with the post office.

[andha-21]

@moldosgifts 

You say good luck to us.

Did you not see the new news letters the other day?

They've been rebranded to seller from business seller.

Looks like they may have something else up their sleeve.

[moldosgifts]

Maybe i have a website that does very well if it comes to it ill massively reduce my offering on ebay, no skin off my nose.

[aphystykqa]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

'Would Ebay have informed us about Evri's own compensation exclusion list ??'

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been thinking  about the 'exclusion list problem' since the details of Simple Del. were first put up.

I've also been convinced that ebay would do something logical, business-like and helpful... like have lists of items that are *excluded* from Simple delivery -so the seller can choose Special Delivery; the only service that insures stuff that needs it.

These excluded categories matching the 'exclusion list' categories of the delivery services...... 

Well, that hasn't happened.

Surely ebay wouldn't be forcing people to send uninsured....? Really....??

(This is one of the things that's changing my mind about ebay's intentions for private sellers. ...I don't think they want us anymore 😢)

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If you click here and scroll down the page, you can see it is quite an extensive list of exclusions -
https://www.evri.com/send/what-i-can-and-cannot-send

If (for example) I sold or someone sold me a Vinyl Record using Evri, and the standard delivery policy of Evri delivery drivers getting out of their cars/vans and simply dropping your parcel on your door-mat/door way - as they usually do to me, and then just knocking on the door (as ringing my door-bell seems to hard for them to work out lol) - and then they rush back to their vehicle, probably as they worried that a vicious dog may attack them if they waited for someone to actually open the door once they've knocked, then if I wasn't in when they called, then yes it could suddenly rain in some massive downfall of rain and wind, and my record would be severely damaged beyond repair, so insofar as Evri is concerned, then it's tough-luck, as Evri won't pay a penny in compensation - which then leaves this mess upon Ebay, the buyer and the seller to sort.

Maybe Ebay would simply say - Oh, but you should have read Evri's terms and conditions before agreeing to the Sale/Purchase ?? - but if Ebay had have stuck to their original guns - and never allowed for Royal Mail as another option, then basically every single seller who sells any of those products which are on Evri's compensation exclusion list would ALL have to sell on a different selling site, or upgrade to a business seller.

But anyway, Ebay did change their minds and include The Royal Mail - as long as it's done through their soon-to-be Mandatory Simple Delivery service, but still Evri is offered to any seller who wants it. Also, the Buyer may request Evri to be used, and most Sellers would simply say YES.

Also, there is a great opportunity to Scam buyers and sellers and even Ebay themselves, if Ebay did say that they would pay compensation if Evri refused to pay. Well, it's not hard to lie and say something was damaged when it arrived, to then go and Scam either the seller, the buyer or even Ebay, if Ebay did step in to pay - when Evri actually refuses to pay.

I be honest, it just makes me so sick and angry, this whole damn mess which Ebay themselves created 

I remember when the Managed Payments system first got introduced and turned mandatory, and people were going crazy, as it was causing an additional delay in Sellers receiving their payments, as in the past Paypal was very swift. So, anyway, eventually Ebay made sellers get paid much quicker, but then suddenly they started to charge buyers a 4% buyer protection premium, whereby sellers now had to wait until the buyer receives the parcel, and then there is also another few days delay before us Private sellers get paid. So now in addition to this mess, then Ebay brings along mandatory Simple Delivery service, which has totally made matters much worse !!! - and I can't even just go to my local Post Office and post parcels in the normal way as I always have done. Now (if I chose to sell through Ebay) - then it can only be done by the 'online version' of Simple Delivery, and QR code nonsense, which is no good to me as I never had nor never want an Smart Phone. I am in the Dumb-Phone generation haha, with button-pressed phones, and thankfully, no internet

[andha-21]

@moldosgifts 

Lmao

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Member-To-Member-Support/Simple-Delivery-will-be-rolled-out-to-Busin...

That's a new thread. After we were speaking about it.

[moldosgifts]

I shall have a read, like i said ebay is not my only source of income , i actually make much less on Ebay sales than anywhere else, Ebay is not the be all and end all, as my mum would say.