The EU and the death penalty

[astrologica]

Reading this morning about the last hours of poor Millie Dowler, I have to confess to shedding a tear or two over the suffering that poor Millie endured at the hands of the evil beast Levi Bellfield. I strongly believe that we should have the death penalty restored in this country, so that people like him could be snuffed out permanently. As the death penalty is banned in all EU countries, maybe we could have a chance to get it restored if we left the EU...what do you folks think?

[margaret*e]

A controversial subject, but as long as it was 100% certain the accused was guilty of serious crimes like that I wouldn't object.

i have a bit of worry if it can ever be proved beyond a doubt.

[cee-dee]

I'm in favour of it being restored.

These days some murders can be proved beyond any doubt.

Those that are only proved "beyond reasonable doubt" should carry a whole life sentence.

[astrologica]

Thank you for your comment Marg*e...I agree with what you say. It is much easier these days to prove guilt beyond doubt. There will always be the odd case where there is an element of doubt, so of course the death penalty shouldn't be imposed in those circumstances. But in cases like that of Millie Dowler, and a few others I could think of, then there is no doubt, and I would happily pull the lever myself to see him drop.

My main point with my original post is whether we might see the death penalty being brought back if we leave the EU. I would imagine that there would be a rethink on many of the dictats that we have had from Brussels, and I am wondering if the restoration of the death penalty would be one of them. I personally would like to see it discussed if we leave, but somehow I don't think it would. The liberal brigade would begin throwing words like 'cruel', 'in humane', human rights' around...totally forgetting about the suffering of murder victims and their families.

[john.b74]

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@cee-dee wrote:

I'm in favour of it being restored.

These days some murders can be proved beyond any doubt.

Those that are only proved "beyond reasonable doubt" should carry a whole life sentence.

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Its a pity It will never happen. Too many do gooders.

[evoman3957]

I just remember the famous quote made by judge "Roy Bean" the so called "Hanging" judge of the old wild west of America.  He said " plenty of criminals I did't hang, went on to commit further crimes...........NONE of the ones I did......did ".

[**bustysinclaire**]

No I don't beleive it should be restored, and hope it never is.  Xx

[joe_bloggs*]

Even if we came out of the EU,it would make no difference as a majority of MP's would vote against it,even amongst the public the death penalty is losing support,especially amongst the young

[artful_dodgings]

Whether we are in or out (preferably out) of the obscenely expensive and restrictive EU Comedy Club - we are wholly affected by this ridiculous nonsense in our laws, border controls, and of our economy - but being out wouldn't make a blind bit of difference as to whether hanging is resurrected. Not as long as there are people like Shami Chakrabarti and her band of weepers and wailers to contend with.

But to answer the OP, yes, I am all in favour of the noose for premeditated murder, treason, and acts of terrorism.

[evoman3957]

..........and therein lies the difference between Doctors and Politicians.  Doctors see a death of somebody, under their care, as a failure and take it personally.  Politicians see the death of one of their constituents as a " Lost Vote " and enough, could mean they'd have to look for another job...........and the latter has the bare faced hypocrisy ; to lecture the former, on what they should have to put up with in their chosen vocation.  Perhaps bringing back the death penalty and making me the executioner, wouldn't be such a good idea after all...........there wouldn't be enough hours in the day for me.

The hypocritic oaf versus the Hippocratic oath

[5129frederick]

As many of you know I am a practising Christian - but I have always advocated the death penalty for premeditated murder and always will, including the hot potatoes like the moors murders and acts of terrorism.  There always has been, and always will be an excess of Longfords who beat a path to the door rallying on behalf of the wrongdoer, never the wronged.  Sickening.  I am also a pro Thatcherite and at one point she tried to reintroduce the death penalty BUT, and here's the big, big but, she wanted it for the murder of policemen and those of the armed services, which is why I would have voted against it.

Why, is the death of a policeman or a soldier any less painful to endure than the death of my wife or daughter?  Am I or any member of my family any less important than that of a policeman, politician, soldier, sailor, or bus driver or road sweeper?

Have it right across the board, or not at all.  Anti hanging lobbbyists are quick to point out that the death penalty was no deterrant while it was in force?  So what?  The murderer knows the score, as does the terrorist who is happy to die a martyr.  By carrying out the death penalty you are preventing more deaths from occuring.  Child rapists et al are in a class of their own.  You destroy a desease you don't breed it. 

[astrologica]

I see we have some pro and some anti death penalty...but does anyone think that there may be a national debate about bringing it back if we leave the EU? If we do leave, it's going to be a bit of a brave new world for Britain, and once the shackles are off, a lot of things may change.

[5129frederick]

Nothing's going to change Astro.  The most you'll get is lip service from our politicians coupled with sweet words and promises, all of them trying to feather their own nests.  That's why if you ever get those six numbers come up, buy a house in Belgium 'cause that's the centre of the financial world - it used to be Switzerland, and then get the money out of the country as quickly as possible.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Nit picking alert

As it is extremely unlikely we will ever divorce ourselves entirely from the EU then it is even more unlikely we will ever have a debate on the death penalty in Parliament.

It is not the EU that prohibits the death penalty in any case - it is protocol 13 of the European Convention on Human Rights which does so.

The Convention on Human Rights is often mistakenly seen as an EU convention, it isn't.  It was the Council of Europe, (founded in 1949), that introduced the Convention which came into force in 1953/

[plpmr]

Restore the death penalty - no. But life that means life without luxuries, just basic rations.

Some of the 'murderers' executed and later pardoned were basically 'framed' by the authorities by withholding or tampering with evidence.

Just think, if we had the death penalty at the time the Birmingham 6 would most definitely have been hanged.

[al**bear]

Firstly the SUN

I think it shows how far in the Gutter this newspaper is

This is the Rag that hacked Millies phone, that meant Her Family had renewed hope she was still alive

This is the paper that talks about morals etc

But this week had pages of 'sex torture porn' about Millie,  at the same time trying to demonise the Police for having the cheek of investigating certain VIPs about similar crimes.

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Death Penalty

Levi Bellfield like loads of other serial killers, play the system, it is part of their sick games, they take great  satisfaction in doing so.

He has loads of secrets, each secret could take years of work to take to conclusion, so if he was facing the Death penalty, a week before the sentence He just says, I want to tell you about the murder with a Hammer of say Jossie Russels Mother & Sister and the savage attack on Jossie. This is just one crime People think He committed among many others.

He could do the same forever, Loads of victims families & Police believe He has many many other victims Hidden as well, if He is dead he can't help solve these crimes.

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Google the Russel murders, you will find the lurid headlines about 'psychopath Michael Stones' despicable crime - Jailed for the murders , won an appeal then was found guilty again on the 'evidence' from a another prisoner who hated Him,  who Stood up in court and said He'd admitted it to Him. 

He likely is, as he has always maintained Innocent of these Murders (the DNA evidence is definitely not Stones), a crime now viewed by many as another of Bellfields

Death penalty crime btw, so Stone may have been executed

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In Scotland we have Peter Tobin, found guilty of three murders, including the kidnap & murder of a Friend of 2 of my Daughters, Vicky Hamilton.

He also sits there with many secrets of other killings (Bible John ?) inside that warped brain.

If He was Killed by the State, these secrets would die with Him

It was reported He had a stroke during the week, but people don't want Him to die, until he tells all.

[5129frederick]

And if we'd had the death penalty, what on earth would that nice Mr. Longford  have done?  

"A voice crying in the wilderness..."  

"Legalised murder!"  

"Vegeance is Mine!"  Sayeth the Lord.

"The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh."

"Two wrongs don't make a right!"

Yes.  Yes, I can picture it right now: they will of course make a full length feature film about the Birmingham 6 one day.  I'm sorry - but there always have been, and always will be, gross miscarriages of justice.  But with DNA and other scientific wizardry "miscarriages of justice" are now a thing of the past.  As I said earlier where it comes to cases of child **bleep** and murder, forget about all this: "It's a very sad case M'lud, but he does have an IQ of just 30% and comes from a broken home..."  their minds are deseased and you irradicate the desease and cause of it.  What about this woman who was actually beheaded by some lunatic with a machette, high on drugs.  All they've done is sent him back into a lunatic asylum to be taken care of for the rest of his days.  Ask the loved ones she's left behind whether they feel we should retain the abolishment of the death penalty.  No way, and as I said, as a practising Christian I would happily pull the lever! 

[5129frederick]

You should be a politician!  This discussion stated off considering whether or not it was right for us to pull out of the EU.  Somehow we've all been sidetracked into the death penalty topic, a real hot potato!   

[plpmr]

"But with DNA and other scientific wizardry "miscarriages of justice" are now a thing of the past."

Unfortunately not as long as there's human intervention as there was with the Birmingham 6 - the tests 'proving' they handled explosives was tampered with by the person who conducted the tests.

Although not murder Google "Mark Pearson" and see how the prosecution tampered with evidence to try to convict him of **bleep**.

[merehazle]

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@5129frederick wrote:

You should be a politician!  This discussion stated off considering whether or not it was right for us to pull out of the EU.  Somehow we've all been sidetracked into the death penalty topic, a real hot potato!   

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Are you sure? If only she was. And a very good one IMO.

'Re: The EU and the death penalty' 

At her post 4 (line 4 down) 'My main point with the original post is whether might see the death penalty brought back if we leave the EU'.

'Somehow we've been sidetracked into the death penalty'  Really?

 '       '  I cant see why? But never mind.  Thank you.