30-09-2018 11:28 AM
OK, so no-one wants to argue any more but what if.........................
A couple of years back referendum was called about either staying in or leaving the EU and the majority voted to leave. Since then arguments have raged back and forth and the remainers are agitating for another referendum.
What if they had another vote and this time the result was to remain BUT, then the leavers started agitating for another making claims for this, that or the other? Would the remainers claim "We had a democratic vote so that's that, we remain IN".
We had a democratic vote before though? The result of that was to LEAVE so if a second vote went the other way would any notice be taken of leavers wanting yet another?? If not, why not?
Shouldn't a vote on something be IT as regards any result not a cause for those who didn't like the result to agitate for another? Where does it end?
By that reckoning it could result in a parliamentry vote for a constituency which ended in a close vote for one person then having those opposed to then claim it was "close" so they demand another go? How many "go's" do you want?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
13-12-2018 2:35 PM
Sorry been busy, well they have different currencies and checks already, the whole irish shambles is a straw europe has grabbed with both greedy hands and a lot of people have fallen for it lol there are procedures in place already, no deal which is Brexit, means we can sort things out so much easier, its what brexit meant/ this is the electronic age remember
13-12-2018 3:09 PM
I think you may be the one who is being misled if you believe there are “procedures in place” or even on the horizon that can ensure a free and open Irish border for goods and people.
If there were such technology available anywhere in the World then May’s deal would already have received Parliamentary approval and there would be no need for any discussion of a “backstop”
13-12-2018 11:59 PM
Sorry but the backstop is only needed in a european 'deal' lol
14-12-2018 8:50 AM
That answer supports my earlier statement - you are being misled if you think there are ways of keeping an open Irish border in the case of a no deal exit.
The ONLY reason a backstop would be needed at all is if we don’t remain in both the customs union and the single market. A no deal exit would certainly match that criteria.
To argue that you you don’t mind a closed Irish border is reasonable but to argue that you can have an open one with a a no deal exit is deluded.
14-12-2018 9:48 AM
Well now, it's said that TM has left Brussels "empty-handed", ie, no change to "the deal" already on the table. From what I've seen of what the EU say now, there's absolutely no chance of changing anything. = It's either "the deal" or NO DEAL.
So, in the light of what the EU are saying, what can TM or anyone else do? If TM threw up her hands, threw in her cards and handed everything over to someone else (either another Tory or even JC) what would they be able to do that was significantly different to what TM & Co has done?
I think most of those involved in criticising TM are privately thinking "Heck, I'm glad it's not me at the helm"? At the top of that list must surely be David Cameron?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
14-12-2018 10:23 AM
You’ll still get politicians from all sides, (as they were on Question Time last night), claiming that they could broker a better deal and one that could get through Parliament with a majority.
What would focus MPs would be if she immediately tabled the vote on the deal with the declaration that if it fails to pass an immediate vote will follow to decide on a no deal exit in March which if that fails will trigger a delay on the implementation of Article 50 to allow for a referendum so the people can decide where the politicians have failed.
14-12-2018 10:42 AM
If there was a referendum (oh nooooooo) what would they be "deciding"?
Stay in, get out or accept what's on offer now? If the latter, where would that leave Ireland?
How would any of that be construed a "success" where the politicians have "failed"?
In striking a "deal", it can only be done by mutual consent. You approach someone to buy what they've got. Somewhere along the line a price is floated. After "negotiation" you get to a point where (for instance) you're offering £100, the other party are demanding £150. You don't want to pay that but the other party sticks to their guns. You try haggling but they won't budge. What do you do? You either pay up or do without? The other party's attitude then hardens and any further haggling on your part only hardens the attitude even more before you're politely told to clear off!!
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
14-12-2018 12:16 PM
14-12-2018 3:46 PM
Force changes? Archie...you must be joking. No one forces the EU to do anything...they are the bullies. The way TM has humiliated herself..yet again...make me feel sick. If she had been on her hands and knees begging it would not have surprised me. David Davies also said last night the the EU are famous for pushing negotiations to the wire and this is what they are doing here. He also said that a 'No Deal' exit is nothing to be afraid of, but the desperados keep pushing their pathetic project fear.
14-12-2018 4:44 PM
An interesting item for the "news" media would be for them to descend on the constituencies of Rees-Mogg and Johnson and make a concerted effort to meet a large number of voters to ask them what they think of the actions of their MPs, whether they agree, whether, were they able to instruct him to follow a certain line and whether, in view of his behaviour whether they'd vote for him again or if they'd make efforts to get the constituency party to choose a different candidate for the next election?
There, that's enough for them to be going on with instead of hanging around Westminster or Brussels looking for bits of tittle-tattle?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
14-12-2018 6:00 PM
David Davies! The former Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union for two years who achieved absolutely nothing in all that time then quit.
Are you really going to quote him as someone to support any ideas regarding the EU.
His appearance on Question Time last night was one of the most embarrassing I’ve ever seen on that programme.
14-12-2018 6:49 PM
Yes....David Davies! The man was given the job of Brexit Secretary and then undermined at every opportunity. He resigned...honourably I think, when Mrs May went behind his back and produced her Brexit-in-name-only Chequers deal. Obviously you don't like him because he doesn't share your Remainers views.
14-12-2018 10:46 PM
“Remainers view” ???
I’m quite happy to leave in an ordered manner - but I can also see the dangers of leaving in a disorderly one.
As for David Davis - I quite liked this one 🙂
14-12-2018 10:57 PM
Many countries trade with the eu without being in the eu, even those who border it, turkey and greece for example. Ireland issue massive propoganda the irish know it, the problem is a remain govt trying to do an exit. A set up from the 'shock' result which shows just how out of touch the parliament gravy train eu pension loving self serving twits are. Same in France, Italy, Spain etc, their arrogance at reform to keep with 'the program' a marxist utopia that has never worked anywhere in history, has led to poverty and unemployment over the 'empire' - funny how everyone cheers when the public did the arab spring for freedom, but dont approve when it happens in France, how the berlin wall falling was applauded, but the leaving of an eu money pit, ie us, is cause for great concern.
Open eyes required into the EU empire's spin.
Personally I wasnt worried about freedom of movement for europeans, it was the open border policy from outside the EU that annoyed me, this way to the uk said france.
There was never anything called 'remain' as its an ongoing project. Next, euro, army, one unelected empire, more countries to be enticed in and then destroyed ad infinitum. Remain was never an option, it didnt exist. Its still a work in progress.
Remember when the powers that be said we would be ruined if we didnt accept the euro, and how well we do with employment etc? Same muppets try the same brainwashing re no deal.
This fiasco at the moment isnt even about trade yet!!!! its a scam to make it all too late to manoever and her head should be at the tower of london i reckon. Ive got a rotten tomato ripening up to throw.
15-12-2018 8:57 AM
I agree that you can at the first level lay the blame for the mess we are in at the feet of the politicians.
But, and it’s a big but, there has been a General Election between the referendum being held and the point we have now reached. It is us, ‘the people’, who voted in the current batch of MPs. We have had the opportunity to choose those we wanted to sort out how we leave the EU and squandered it.
It’s somewhat disingenuous to now blame the politicians we voted in.
15-12-2018 9:08 AM
P.S. I’m pretty sure that Greece is a member of the EU. 😉
Why not give Norway or Switzerland as examples of countries the EU trade with. Their type of deals would be a huge improvement on a no-deal exit but not as good in my opinion as the deal that is on the table.
15-12-2018 3:29 PM
15-12-2018 3:50 PM
18-12-2018 10:37 PM
Bit late replying but. Not sure what you mean? - of course greece is it the eu thats why it has lost ownership of all its ports and is ruined and enslaved, i was talking about the border between eu and non eu ie greece and turkey, you know turkey isnt in the eu dont you
19-12-2018 1:33 AM
It is hardly clear that was what you meant from this:-
“Many countries trade with the eu without being in the eu, even those who border it, turkey and greece for example.”