What if?

[cee-dee]

OK, so no-one wants to argue any more but what if.........................

A couple of years back referendum was called about either staying in or leaving the EU and the majority voted to leave. Since then arguments have raged back and forth and the remainers are agitating for another referendum.

What if they had another vote and this time the result was to remain BUT, then the leavers started agitating for another making claims for this, that or the other? Would the remainers claim "We had a democratic vote so that's that, we remain IN".

We had a democratic vote before though? The result of that was to LEAVE so if a second vote went the other way would any notice be taken of leavers wanting yet another?? If not, why not?

Shouldn't a vote on something be IT as regards any result not a cause for those who didn't like the result to agitate for another? Where does it end?

By that reckoning it could result in a parliamentry vote for a constituency which ended in a close vote for one person then having those opposed to then claim it was "close" so they demand another go? How many "go's" do you want?

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Do you really expect any government to be bound by a previous government’s commitments?

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Most stupid thing you've ever posted and you've posted some humdingers.

Going by your analogy then our present government has every right to change the 1975 commitment.

So what you moaning about!!!!

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You really do post in an objectionable way sometimes! 

Of course the present government or any future government has every right to change the 1975 commitment.  (Try telling Astro that a government has the right to change a commitment),  

I was a supporter of the 2015 referendum, (I still am).  I don’t mind leaving the EU in principle.  What I do mind is committing to leave the EU irrespective of what deal, (or no deal), is achieved and without the electorate being given the opportunity to endorse that deal.

[mikes*corvettes]

https://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/413523/countdown-to-brexit

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:
https://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/413523/countdown-to-brexit

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That can’t be right!  - We apparently aren’t running to schedule.

[astrologica]

If we were on schedule we would have some sort of a deal worked out by now! But time is running out, and things seem to be hotting up a bit ...we are in for a very interesting week. What do you good folks on here think will happen? And what would you like to happen?

[joe_bloggs*]

May V Boris - Brex-IT, the movie

[astrologica]

😂😂😂

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@astrologica wrote:

If we were on schedule we would have some sort of a deal worked out by now! But time is running out, and things seem to be hotting up a bit ...we are in for a very interesting week. What do you good folks on here think will happen? And what would you like to happen?

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Why would we have a deal worked out?  Was there ever a schedule for that?  Deals were never even mentioned in the run up to the referendum.

I thought it didn’t matter what deal is agreed - I thought that wasn’t important, (certainly not important enough for ‘the people’ to have any say), all that matters is we leave and we’re on schedule to leave in March.

https://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/413523/countdown-to-brexit

[mikes*corvettes]

^^^^^^^

Stop stomping your feet like a petulant child, who doesn't get their own way.

[upthecreekyetagain]

You can tell more about a person from what they say about others than you can from what others say about them 

[cee-dee]

Right, so, we've had some argument round and about the subject but getting back to my OP, I'm heartily sick and tired of hearing about the subject of Brexit.

Like I said, if the remainers got their way, had a second vote and "won" it, would any notice then be taken of leavers "demanding" yet another vote after us all discovering what remaining would mean (and cost)?

On the political scene, at the moment, there are several camps, the most straightforward two are the hardline leavers and hardline remainers. The other camps seem divided between "opposition" = those who vote to oppose anything put forward by "the government" no matter what, those who oppose Corbyn, those who want to stab May in the back for whatever reason and those who can't make up their mind at all.

As for the Europeans, they don't want us to leave on ANY terms because they want to keep on "taking the money" and increasing the ever growing army of bureaucrats based on their soil who keep inventing new "rules" to keep themselves employed with greedy eyes on more, ever more from the gravy-train.

How on earth can you negotiate with someone who doesn't want to negotiate? No matter what is "offered", it will be refused and "more" demanded and finally, if/when they find a difficult stumbling block, that will be hauled out at every new "negotiation" with a demand that the stumbling block be settled first before anything else can be "agreed".

Other opportunists won't "negotiate" until the whole sorry business of Brexit is completed because they want to see how the land lies before they jump.

Time to say "Right, that's it. We go, end of story."

[astrologica]

I'm inclined to agree with you there CeeDee. Mrs May trots off to Brussels regularly with another new 'deal', and immediately,every time, she is told it's not good enough, and sent packing. They come up with absolutely nothing themselves, so it's quite obvious that they are not interested in any negotiation. She cannot please everyone, as she has been trying to do, so she has to get down to it and produce an agreement that suits the majority. Of course, the Remainers would not be happy, but they would have to suck it up and accept that we have Democracy in this country...and they lost. If that means checks at the Irish border..so be it. Otherwise it's over the cliff we go.  Things are looking very difficult for her at the moment...she might even be gone by this time next week.

[bankhaunter]

they would have to suck it up and accept that we have Democracy in this country..

That sort of democracy can be summed up by two wolves and a lamb deciding what they are going to have for dinner.

[astrologica]

That type of analogy applies to the animal world. I've yet to see any animal species have a vote to decide policy.  Applied to the population of the UK..well, that kind of thinking would probably lead to a civil war. We do have a democratic process, which works perfectly well when we have elections. We don't have the losing party complaining and wanting a re-run in Parliamentary elections, do we? So what is so different about this referendum? Democracy has to prevail, whatever election or referendum it is applied to....otherwise we may as well ditch it and have the kind of mob rule that you allude to.

[upthecreekyetagain]

It’s an oxymoron to suggest that having a referendum is undemocratic!

[astrologica]

Who said a referendum is undemocratic?

[upthecreekyetagain]

Apparently the idea of a referendum on any deal with the EU which may include the option to remain would be ‘undemocratic’ according to some.

[fallen-archie]

I do not accept this democracy charge, we had a referendum and a choice was made! Since then the eu has closed ranks and told us in no uncertain terms that we cannot leave and be better off and that therefore we must be punished! If they really want us to remain why don’t they make an offer to us which addresses the concerns of those who voted to leave?
The problem as I see it is that if they don’t do something to appease the genuine concerns of the 52%who voted to leave we will ALL be worse off! All they needed to do was accept the concerns of the majority and allow us to control the movement of people, once done that would be the end of it, IMHO!

[upthecreekyetagain]

There is absolutely no incentive for the other EU members to make a deal which won’t benefit them.  They have no need to make concessions which will make it ‘easy’ for the UK to leave.  The UK will be direct competitors to the EU and the greater the damage they can do to our trade and economic growth the better it will be for them.

We were told by the ‘leave’campaign that Germany in particular wouldn’t want to lose the UK market and would make sure that trade would continue unhindered if we left the EU.  The reality is that in trade terms it will be easier for the EU to fill any trade gaps that occur when we leave than it will be for the UK. 

[suzieseaside]

Perhaps someone can enlighten me ....... I see dramatic and sensationalist headlines that Brexit will be DEVASTATING for young people and that it will RUIN their lives.

What is it EXACTLY that is going to RUIN the lives of the youth?
Eh?

I am sick of all the fear mongering by the remoaners. It undermines any negotiations if the EU think we might change our minds.

For those fed up with the talk of another referendum there is now a Government petition you can sign to object to the so called "People's Vote"

[mikes*corvettes]

The best one I've heard recently is one young millennial complaining about how after Brexit it will be hard for him to go and work in Spain, Greece and Italy.

Guess he hasn't checked the unemployment figures in these countries.