What if?

[cee-dee]

OK, so no-one wants to argue any more but what if.........................

A couple of years back referendum was called about either staying in or leaving the EU and the majority voted to leave. Since then arguments have raged back and forth and the remainers are agitating for another referendum.

What if they had another vote and this time the result was to remain BUT, then the leavers started agitating for another making claims for this, that or the other? Would the remainers claim "We had a democratic vote so that's that, we remain IN".

We had a democratic vote before though? The result of that was to LEAVE so if a second vote went the other way would any notice be taken of leavers wanting yet another?? If not, why not?

Shouldn't a vote on something be IT as regards any result not a cause for those who didn't like the result to agitate for another? Where does it end?

By that reckoning it could result in a parliamentry vote for a constituency which ended in a close vote for one person then having those opposed to then claim it was "close" so they demand another go? How many "go's" do you want?

[bankhaunter]

Why would the EU be nice to us, why would any countries we used to have trade agreements be nice us, they have other markets now.

Regardless what happens with the negociations, the idea we will be making the rules for ourselves from now on is a hollow joke, other countries will be doing that.

[theelench]

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

The problem is we do NOT know what Brexit means - we won’t know until the end of the year when negotiations are complete. 

---

Whatever it means the majority voted for it  --  To Leave.

IF the Remainers manage to force another referendum on "The Deal" then that is all it should be on, whether the deal is acceptable or not.  It shouldn't alter the original Leave result.

As someone said earlier, where does it end.  If we have another vote on "In" or "Out" when we know what the deal is and it still results in an Out vote do we have another when the transition period ends and all the details are finalised?  And perhaps another, a couple of years after we've left to make sure we still like our decision when we see how things are going?

Isn't this a tried and tested trick by the EU.  If they don't get the "right" result the first time, have another vote and sometimes several, until they get the answer they want.  Then, suddenly THAT vote becomes binding.

If Cameron had managed to get some "meaningful" concessions from the EU and then called a referendum which was won by the Remain faction.  Would there be any likelyhood of a second vote on the details of that deal?  Of course not.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Look at it the other way round.

Imagine we weren’t a member of the EU and we held a referendum om whether to join or not which resulted in a majority in favour of joining.  Would it then be right for us to join no matter what the deal was that was struck, no matter how much it cost us, no matter what laws we would be subject to, no matter what the effect on immigration etc.

I thought the above is one of the objections put forward about the referendum held in the ‘70s - we didn’t know what we were voting for.

[cee-dee]

The thing is..... isn't too much choice is just as bad as not enough?

Where's it all going to end? Were all the ins and outs of what was then the "Common Market" fully outlined in 1975? = No. Since then it's evolved in to the European Economic Community and now the European Community.

It seems the ultimate objective is a European State ruled by some almighty European "body". Hardly a "community"? Seems more like a hard-line authoritarian state?

So, in the '75 vote people were not told what "membership" entailed or what the objective was. Now that some have seen the light and want out, those that think the UK will be "better off" remaining within the EU now want to try every trick in the book to remain and you can be sure that were the UK fool enough to bow to their ideas, they'd pull every stunt they could to sign up the UK to some sort of binding agreement to ensure that the general public would never, ever be given the chance to try to withdraw again.

[mikes*corvettes]

Little bit of trivia:

The UK leaving this utopia known as the eu, equates to 19 of the smaller countries leaving, now out of 28 presently in....

I wonder why the eu is so upset with us ?

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@cee-dee wrote:

The thing is..... isn't too much choice is just as bad as not enough?

Where's it all going to end? Were all the ins and outs of what was then the "Common Market" fully outlined in 1975? = No. Since then it's evolved in to the European Economic Community and now the European Community.

It seems the ultimate objective is a European State ruled by some almighty European "body". Hardly a "community"? Seems more like a hard-line authoritarian state?

So, in the '75 vote people were not told what "membership" entailed or what the objective was. Now that some have seen the light and want out, those that think the UK will be "better off" remaining within the EU now want to try every trick in the book to remain and you can be sure that were the UK fool enough to bow to their ideas, they'd pull every stunt they could to sign up the UK to some sort of binding agreement to ensure that the general public would never, ever be given the chance to try to withdraw again.

---

Isn’t that EXACTLY what those opposed to a vote based on the deal reached with the EU are trying to do in the opposite direction ???

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@mikes*corvettes wrote:

Little bit of trivia:

The UK leaving this utopia known as the eu, equates to 19 of the smaller countries leaving, now out of 28 presently in....

I wonder why the eu is so upset with us ?

---

.On what basis?  Budget contribution, GDP, population, industrial growth, area, natural resources, armed forces. gold reserves, national debt

[mikes*corvettes]

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

---

@mikes*corvettes wrote:

Little bit of trivia:

The UK leaving this utopia known as the eu, equates to 19 of the smaller countries leaving, now out of 28 presently in....

I wonder why the eu is so upset with us ?

---

.On what basis?  Budget contribution, GDP, population, industrial growth, area, natural resources, armed forces. gold reserves, national debt

---

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/915306/Brexit-news-Germany-Hans-Olaf-Henkel-UK-EU-European-Unio...

Read the comments under that article and then come back and tell me that people have changed their minds about us leaving. 

[mustard-tree]

If leaving is such a bad thing, how on earth did we manage before 1975?

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@mikes*corvettes wrote:

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

---

@mikes*corvettes wrote:

Little bit of trivia:

The UK leaving this utopia known as the eu, equates to 19 of the smaller countries leaving, now out of 28 presently in....

I wonder why the eu is so upset with us ?

---

.On what basis?  Budget contribution, GDP, population, industrial growth, area, natural resources, armed forces. gold reserves, national debt

---

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/915306/Brexit-news-Germany-Hans-Olaf-Henkel-UK-EU-European-Unio...

Read the comments under that article and then come back and tell me that people have changed their minds about us leaving. 

---

I’d put exactly the same question to Henkel - I know he isn’t a native English speaker but to say “economically” Brexit is the same as 18 of the smaller countries leaving the EU makes no sense.

Ive never said people have changed their minds about us leaving the EU, all I have said is that a vote when we know on what terms we will be leaving would be far more sensible than the one that was held. 

If you are convinced that people haven’t changed their minds then what are you and others afraid of in a confirmation vote?

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@mustard-tree wrote:

If leaving is such a bad thing, how on earth did we manage before 1975?

---

Not very well!

The year before had seen the three day week - inflation was at record highs, unemployment rising - don’t you remember?

[astrologica]

Creeky..no -one is afraid of a second vote...indeed, if we did have one then I really believe that the majority for leaving would be considerably higher than the last one. The idea of another referendum, or , as they disingenuously like to call it, a 'People's Vote', is anathema to most people as it would seriously undermine Democracy in this country. You can can bleat 'It was an advisory vote' as often as you like, but that leaflet made it quite clear....the Government would carry out the wishes of the majority. And with Mrs May's present offering, those wishes are not being honoured. We live in very interesting and fascinating times politically..and it's about to get quite volatile, as time is running out.

[mikes*corvettes]

"If you are convinced that people haven’t changed their minds then what are you and others afraid of in a confirmation vote?"

I'm not afraid of another vote......But I really object to anymore needless delays in the exit process.

---

[upthecreekyetagain]

It’s not the same government now nor the same PM as the one which had that leaflet published..

We've had a General Election since then and now have a coalition government.  Do you really expect any government to be bound by a previous government’s commitments?

How can a vote on anything be “undemocratic”?

[upthecreekyetagain]

I’m not sure there have been any delays in the “exit process”.  It’s all running to schedule. 

[astrologica]

The pathetic excuses for having another referendum are endless..'we didn't know what we were voting for'..'it was only an advisory vote'..and now 'but we have a new government'.. Everyone knew that the vote would be binding.

And another vote would be undemocratic..we have had THE vote, and we are leaving. It was not the best of three..it was THE referendum, The vote. Finis.

[astrologica]

All running to schedule? You are having a laugh! The referendum was more than two years ago..we have just five months to go before we leave and we have nothing agreed. The EU and the sad Remainers have thrown spanners in the works at every opportunity to delay the procedures and try to get the will of the people overturned. It is looking increasingly likely that we will be leaving without a deal..the jump of the proverbial cliff. And if that happens you can only blame those Brussels creeps, the Government, and people like yourself who have whinged and moaned all the way. The leap off the cliff is looking increasingly more attractive..who knows, we might even find we can fly.

[mikes*corvettes]

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Do you really expect any government to be bound by a previous government’s commitments?

---

Going by your analogy then our present government has every right to change the 1975 commitment.

So what you moaning about!!!!

[joe_bloggs*]

Comments in one of the biggest brexit supporting papers agree with brexit,What a surprise.................Not

---

@mikes*corvettes wrote:

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

---

@mikes*corvettes wrote:

Little bit of trivia:

The UK leaving this utopia known as the eu, equates to 19 of the smaller countries leaving, now out of 28 presently in....

I wonder why the eu is so upset with us ?

---

.On what basis?  Budget contribution, GDP, population, industrial growth, area, natural resources, armed forces. gold reserves, national debt

---

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/915306/Brexit-news-Germany-Hans-Olaf-Henkel-UK-EU-European-Unio...

Read the comments under that article and then come back and tell me that people have changed their minds about us leaving. 

---

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@astrologica wrote:

All running to schedule? You are having a laugh! The referendum was more than two years ago..we have just five months to go before we leave and we have nothing agreed. The EU and the sad Remainers have thrown spanners in the works at every opportunity to delay the procedures and try to get the will of the people overturned. It is looking increasingly likely that we will be leaving without a deal..the jump of the proverbial cliff. And if that happens you can only blame those Brussels creeps, the Government, and people like yourself who have whinged and moaned all the way. The leap off the cliff is looking increasingly more attractive..who knows, we might even find we can fly.

---

It is running to schedule - “Article 50” was triggered on the date the government of the time said it would be - we are due to leave the EU in March next year in accordance to the terms laid out in “Article 50”

What hasn’t agreed are the terms under which we leave but according to you that doesn’t matter as long as we leave and the British people shouldn’t have a say in accepting those terms or lack of them.

I haven’t whinged or moaned as you put it - I’ve simply not agreed with you and don’t think it’s sensible to jump off a cliff without at least considering the consequences.