OK, in or out?

[cee-dee]

How about an RT poll?

No reasons, no argument, no debate just a straightforward IN or OUT.

Me? OUT.

[artful_dodgings]

Have to agree wholeheartedly with Evoman. This referendum in June is our last chance to free ourselves from the shackles of this constricting and suffocating maze minefield, that is the EU. When it's gone, it's gone. For the timid ones who twitter on re 'we have no idea what will happen if we come out', no we won't. Not unless we possess the talents of Doris Stokes. One thing I will say though, if we stay, it'll more of the same. Only worse.

[fallen-archie]

As I have been at pains to say I don't entirely disagree with either of you and I am under no illusion what is a stake. We have to get away from this interpretation of a continent dominated by one group or another a bit like the Eurovision song contest where the Balkan states gang up to choose the winner, Its bizarre but it is also human nature. All I will say is that if we are going to cross swords with our neighbours I would far rather have it take place around a table than I would in the battlefield which was how we solved matters in the last century at enormous human cost.

[evoman3957]

Don't Tell Me that You Understand

Don't tell me that you understand
Don't tell me that you know,
Don't tell me that I will survive
Or how I will surely grow.

Don't tell me that this is just a test
That I am truly blessed
That I am chosen for this task
Apart from all the rest.

Don't come at me with answers
That can only come from me,
Don't tell me how my grief will pass,
That I will soon be free.

Don't stand in pious judgment
Of the bounds I must untie,
Don't tell me how to suffer
And don't tell me how to cry!

My life is filled with selfishness,
My pain is all I see,
But, I need you now,
I need your love, unconditionally.

Accept me in my ups and downs,
I need someone to share,
Just hold my hand and let me cry,
And say, "My friend, I care."

By Joanetta Hendel

[fallen-archie]

Democracy will not come
Today, this year
Nor ever
Through compromise and fear.

I have as much right
As the other fellow has
To stand
On my two feet
And own the land.

I tire so of hearing people say,
Let things take their course.
Tomorrow is another day.
I do not need my freedom when I'm dead.
I cannot live on tomorrow's bread.

Freedom
Is a strong seed
Planted
In a great need.

 
I live here, too.
I want freedom
Just as you.

Langston Hughes

[cee-dee]

Justa flippin' minit. The matters we solved on the battlefield last century were not started by this country, they were started by one other.

OK, so we reacted and eventually (with the help of other countries) managed to overcome the threatening oppression, the ideology of which was quite wrong.

As to any "Trade agreement", why do we have to have any formal such thing? What's it for?" We sell stuff to America and they sell us stuff already so why'd we need a "Trade Agreement"? It's all a load of money-wasting waffle as was what was the "Common Market". This "European Union" lark is just an overgrown bureaucracy whose only useful function seems to be to provide "work" for people who spend their time inventing new things to impose upon everyone under the guise of "conformity". Cobblers, it's disguised oppression!

[fallen-archie]

Doesn't matter who started it, the fact is it happened and we paid a huge price as a result. I have agreed on countless occasions that the EU in it's current guise is a bureaucratic mess, How many times have I voiced my disdain at the red tape we all endure in our every day life? What gets my goat are those ancient Tories who have opposed not the things that are wrong but the EU as a principal whereby a group of nations perform in a common market, they are living in a bygone era when Britain had an empire. Fight the problems not the principle.

[artful_dodgings]

Yes CD, who are these EU suits ? What are they ? What is their purpose ? There must be literally millions of them in that Brussels  conglomerate, all making up silly rules and regulations to which we must abide by. Each one of these nonentities commanding huge salaries and pensions. It's an absolute tragedy, while at the same time smacks at something that Lewis Carroll might dream up.

Every last one of these pen pushers and paper shufflers should be put out to grass.

[evoman3957]

An old tale that seems to have been forgotten, for EU.........substitute weavers / swindlers.

http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheEmperorsNewClothes_e.html

[upthecreekyetagain]

What's this "red tape we all endure in our every day life"?

[artful_dodgings]

#341. 'it'll be more' *memo to self...must slow down*

Yes Evo, that just about sums it up nicely. And for all it's age, still relevant today.

[artful_dodgings]

WARNING, WARNING, WARNING......*flashing red lights and screaming sirens*

Beware, Nitpicker on the loose.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Hardly nit picking - simply a question.

Apparently according to CD I have to endure red tape in my everyday life - how? - examples?

[artful_dodgings]

I think it was Fallen Archie who mentioned 'red tape' @ post #346, and not CD.

Creeky old chap, ever thought about making a name for yourself on the comedy circuit ? I think you would succeed where Lembit Opik failed.

[upthecreekyetagain]

You're right of course - aren't you always

It was the large blue font that threw me - blue tape?

Still wonder what excessive bureaucracy, (red tape), it is that I suffer with patience, (endure), on a daily basis that is difficult or painful ?

Sounds like hyperbole to me rather than fact.

[artful_dodgings]

Creeky, you are obviously lucky that you are not in receipt of either JSA, or a disability benefit. Not applicable to myself, but I know of two people who are, and they are both driven to distraction by red tape. And if it's red tape you want, I'm sure your local council will furnish you with some. I know mine could.

Anyway, may you continue on your merry way free from the constraints of red tape - unlike some other poor mortals.

[fallen-archie]

I suppose what I define as red tape is excessive regulation of business and individuals in the name of health and safety. Endless risk assessments, the demand that we wear suitable PPE when undertaking even the most simple of tasks. I have a vision of Mr Crabtree stalking a wild brown trout on the riverbank adorned in a high vis life jacket, goggles and a hard hat.
The additional training given to perfectly capable drivers of handling equipment, the need to store records for years from receipts to everyday checklists. The EU loves regulation, yes it does have its place and is sometimes essential, currently though I believe much of it is OTT.

[evoman3957]

Come on now, you all know that there are times in life; when we have our Bottoms wiped for us, our hair combed and we are spoon fed our Din Dins. A few years in the beginning and a good few more years at the end, if we're lucky to live that long........lucky......Mmmmm.....anyway that's another debate. Well the EU care deeply about us and for the sake of continuity, they simply want to extend that process for our entire lives. Nothing wrong with that, they know we miss it after it stops in the beginning and they know we can't wait until it starts again, at the end, they're just filling the gap and keeping us all happy..........anyway, people who think and manage for themselves are dangerous and we just can't be having that now.......can we !!!

[upthecreekyetagain]

I'm well aware of the red tape whenever dealing with the DWP but to blame the EU for the bureaucracy is erroneous as far as I am aware.  They haven't made the rules regarding JSA or disability benefits - you can blame our own sovereign government for those!

[artful_dodgings]

You're having another one of your funny turns. Please point me in the direction of the posting where I accused the EU.  I am well aware that it's the present incumbents who dish out the rules re the JS and the DWP.

Do try and keep up.

*sigh*

[upthecreekyetagain]

YOU may not have said it was the EU who was guilty for the red tape surrounding the cases you mentioned BUT the original poster most certanly did - and as you were answering my question arising from that post it is only reasonable to assume you were trying to give a relevant example - if not then it was pure rambling on your part 🙂

"I have agreed on countless occasions that the EU in it's current guise is a bureaucratic mess, How many times have I voiced my disdain at the red tape we all endure in our every day life?"