OK, in or out?

How about an RT poll?

 

No reasons, no argument, no debate just a straightforward IN or OUT.

 

Me? OUT.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

We are all ( or should be) thinking about our children and grandchildren when deciding how to vote, But it would be madness to leave the decision entirely to the young. From what I see of some of the young people who use Facebook, most of them have not a clue, and don't want to have a clue. They can't decide what colour nail polish to wear, let alone the future of this country. That really worries me. My own grandchildren weren't the slightest bit interested in the EU, and knew nothing about it, but I have ensured that they know enough to make an informed decision. Sure , some young people are interested in politics, but most of them don't care. And we older folks have been around a while and have more life experiences behind us....I like to think that we are a little wiser.

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Re: OK, in or out?

Eddie Izzard's appearance on 'Question Time' was an embarrassment. Waving his arms around like a demented windmill, constantly interrupting other speakers, he acted and spoke like some hysterical Pantomime Dame. Even David Dimbleby was frustrated with his antics, and I did think that at some point he would ask him to leave the panel.

 

Boris Johnson on the 'head to head' ITV EU Debate, was the only one not to resort to personal insults and kept to the topic at hand, while Lady Macbeth from o'er the Border is a turn-off on any panel.

 

I find that Nigel Farage is the only one who can give a clear response to a question. His replies are informative and revealing, measured and unfaltering. Not even the Grand Master of Inquisitors, Andrew Neil, could get the whip hand ofhim. And let's not forget that Nigel Farage is actually talking himself out of a job....and has done so since 1999 !

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Re: OK, in or out?

As a lot of recent posters have said, it's the young voters of our country who are going to have to contend with the result of this referendum in the years to come and the remain camp seem to be pinning their hopes on the young vote swinging things their way. Their rationale seems to be that it is the young who want to see open borders remain and again it is young people who are far more accepting of immigration than the older generation.

 

Well I'm sorry but to me their logic is skewed. It is only children from middle class families who will reap the benefits from open borders, it is they who will benefit from unrestricted foreign travel whether to study as part of their higher education courses or to take gap years funded by the bank of Mum and Dad. Similarly, middle class youngsters are on the whole likely to be more tolerant of immigration because their future prospects careerwise are far less likely to be affected by the huge influx of largely unskilled labour who will be making their way here if we remain.

 

Working class young people on the other hand have far more pressing matters to be concerned about eg finding a place to live and raise a family and then managing to keep a roof over their heads, managing their weekly budgets while on temporary or zero hour contracts, being able to get a Doctor's appointment or Hospital referral in a reasonable amount of time, getting their own children into schools of their choice. These are all problems that the majority of middle class families rarely have to contend with. Social housing shortages, an overwhelmed education system, a health system bursting at the seams, these are all problems that the middle classes are mostly able to buy their way out of.  Left wing luvvies like Eddie Izzard should be looking more closely at the problems faced by our own poorest people before opening his arms to all and sundry.

 

If the EU is such a wonderful institution, why has its economy been more or less stagnant for the past decade and why do so many of its inhabitants want to make their way here?  

 

End of rant Man Mad 

 

 

 

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Re: OK, in or out?

Immigration is the cause of many "arguments" both for and against and uppermost in most discussions on the subject is illegal immigration.

 

How many have ever watched the several TV programmes about border security? There are programmes from the UK, Ireland, America, Canada and New Zealand as far as I can remember and before the sneering dismissals about TV programmes, these are not TV dramatisations, they follow border security, customs and immigration officials as they go about their jobs.

 

What stands out with illegals is the blatant disregard for the laws of the country and the ignorance of the English Language. The majority of those caught have been in the respective country for some time, some, many years before being caught but cannot speak English. They have absolutely no intention of integrating and will do and say anything to avoid being deported.

 

One "raid" on premises in the UK suspected of employing illegal immigrants found 20 "foreign" workers, 17 of whom were found to be illegals. Due to the idiotic "rules", they had to be released on bail/licence and of those, 15 absconded and will now have to located all over again. The other two were deported after the bureaucratic process.

 

The above mentioned have no place here but I don't have any argument with those coming here who can make a contribution to our society and way of life, who integrate, adopt our ways, respect our Laws and most of all learn to speak English with a very wide vocabulary.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

I think the majority would share your sentiments, I certainly recognise the TV programmes you refer to and yes the problem is not unique to the UK either. What I am a little concerned about is you, as others do, lump all illegals into a package made in europe, I have Polish and Hungarian workers who attend english lessons at their own expence, contribute to our society and integrate rather well despite the negativity of many natives. Those from the Middle east, Africa and the Indian sub continent are not part of the EU yet it is they who largely fail to integrate from what I have seen. 

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Re: OK, in or out?


@jd.linklater wrote:

 

. . . . . . . . Well I'm sorry but to me their logic is skewed. It is only children from middle class families who will reap the benefits from open borders, it is they who will benefit from unrestricted foreign travel . . . . . . . . .

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I'm watching England play Russia in Marseilles on the TV - not sure that the tens of thousands of English fans are all from middle class families!

 

 

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Re: OK, in or out?

Just the ones rioting Smiley Very Happy

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Re: OK, in or out?

And the ones celebrating the goal?



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

Good game - unlucky England

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Re: OK, in or out?

Isn't it Europe that "helps" the illegals? They travel vast distances through Europe and the Europeans do nothing to send them back whence they came.

 

They don't arrive here straight from their home country, they come here from Europe so it IS a European problem which they foist on to us.

 

If they were fleeing for their lives, wouldn't they be grateful for assylum in the first safe country they got to? The long and the short of it is, those countries don't want them either, there's far too many of them with a way of life (which they have no intention of changing) vastly different to even the most primitive in Europe. OUT.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

What on earth are you suggesting? That unless an asylum seeker travels to Britain by Air on a direct flight it is another countries problem? It is the problem of the nation these people wish to reach but above all it is the problem of the nation state that they were born in. Globalisation is part of the problem as it creates a them and us economic framework and religion is the other as it seeks to control a huge number of people in a medieval way.
There are plenty of genuine pros and cons which are directly related to the EU and the debate would benefit if we focused on them.
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Re: OK, in or out?

There are legal ways to get here. That the illegals choose the illegal route shows that they have absolutely no intention of adopting a legal status and becoming Law-abiding. This is demonstrated by the crimes committed by them when they've got here.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

Ok so none of them are desperate, none of them seek to work legally, none of them abide any laws? I suppose you have some scientific evidence to support that assertion, or could it be fantasy Island all over again.
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Re: OK, in or out?

I suppose you have some scientific evidence to the contrary?

 

Trouble with these "scentific" reports is they're often produced with a biased intent, if they're looking for a certain bit of "evidence", they're going to find it.

 

The thing about the net is, you're able to get far more news than in "days of old". I don't mean the headline news sites or the sites of the national papers but on many sites there's links to local news sites and papers. There you'll see many reports of the criminal activities of these immigrants you seem to want to welcome with open arms.

 

They come here with the clear intent of continuing to commit crime once they get here.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

All of them?
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Re: OK, in or out?


@astrologica wrote:

We are all ( or should be) thinking about our children and grandchildren when deciding how to vote, But it would be madness to leave the decision entirely to the young. From what I see of some of the young people who use Facebook, most of them have not a clue, and don't want to have a clue. They can't decide what colour nail polish to wear, let alone the future of this country. That really worries me. My own grandchildren weren't the slightest bit interested in the EU, and knew nothing about it, but I have ensured that they know enough to make an informed decision. Sure , some young people are interested in politics, but most of them don't care. And we older folks have been around a while and have more life experiences behind us....I like to think that we are a little wiser.


....and more likely to be a bit senile?

 

I'd trust the wisdom and judgement of a forward-thinking, well-travelled, educated twentysomething over and above a reactionary, tabloid-reading pearl-clutcher who has led a sheltered life.

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Re: OK, in or out?

If they're illegals, it seems so.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Re: OK, in or out?

Isn't it a basic EU rule that asylum seekers should apply for asylum in the first safe country that they arrive in? Well, they soon ditched that one when it suited them. And yet other basic rules are etched in stone and can't possibly be changed. Hypocrites.

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Re: OK, in or out?

Oh...Hello Bookhunter! It's been a while! I was expecting you....can't resist it can you? So this is where the thread turns nasty.....shame.

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Re: OK, in or out?

And....as Ms Mandy Rice-Davies said....'Well, you would, wouldn't you.'

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