Are the Jockanese really going to go for it?

[sir_arthur_strebe-grebling]

Tonight's opinion polls look like Salmond's promise of a marxist state, funded by fruit from the magic money tree, is proving irresistible and the people living in Scotland may well vote to pull the plug.

Quite why they are being allowed to destroy my country - the United Kingdom - is a key question but at least, without Scotland, we wouldn't have many Labour governments in future, so there is a bright side.

[lambsy_uk]

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@al**bear wrote:

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@lambsy_uk wrote:

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@al**bear wrote:

The Scots do hate the 'Tories'

Why?

-----------------------------------

They hated and still Hate everything Thatcher and her Ilk (Cameron etc) stood/stand for , they view her years as when Britain was destroyed and power was sucked into the SE and the City of London

She changed the Tory Party into a more US Republican party entity - way to the Right of the Old Conservative Party of Macmillan & Heath

It is also Her fault, we are having this vote in the first place, the SNP were a rump party before She moved into Number 10. It is her fault that the '79 group' who had formed inside the SNP, Salmond and his gang of very left wing Republicans, they had been thrown out, but due to Maggie came back in and to took over the party  -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/79_Group

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Thanks for the reply, what is it they believe Thatcher and her ilk stand for?

[upthecreekyetagain]

Ironic really that one of only two general elections that would have resulted in different governments were Scotland independent at the time they were held was in February 1974.

Ted Heath lost that election to a minority Labour government led by James Callaghan and Ted Heath lost the leadership of the Conservative party to Maggie Thatcher.

Without the Scottish votes Ted Heath would have continued as Prime Minister and his proposed reforms on dealing with Union reform were far more temepered than that of the later Thatcher government - indeed it is likely that had the 1974 election gone differently then Maggie Thatcher would never have become Prime Minister.

[lambsy_uk]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Ironic really that one of only two general elections that would have resulted in different governments were Scotland independent at the time they were held was in February 1974.

Ted Heath lost that election to a minority Labour government led by James Callaghan and Ted Heath lost the leadership of the Conservative party to Maggie Thatcher.

Without the Scottish votes Ted Heath would have continued as Prime Minister and his proposed reforms on dealing with Union reform were far more temepered than that of the later Thatcher government - indeed it is likely that had the 1974 election gone differently then Maggie Thatcher would never have become Prime Minister.

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One occassion when fate dealt a a hefty amount of good fortune!

[papko]

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NOT all Scotland votes Labour

as has been pointed out numerous times

If you take the number of MPS , the Labour MPS have an unfair as there share of the vote reflects in an imbalance of MPS

in 2010 1000 035 Scots voted LAb and got 43 MPS

yet 465k Scots vote Liberal and got 11 MPS

Its worse with the conservative party
416k Scots voted Tory in 2010 and only one MP

37 % of the vote and only 19% of the MPS

So basicly the 4 million Scots in the elctrorate and the 2.4 million of those that actually vote , are represented by 43 MPS that only 25% of the electorate voted for

Going back to 1979 , 32% of Scots voted for MAggie , 922k , yet we only got 22 MPS

yet 1,1 million voted LAb and got 44 MPS

The 880k Scots who voted Tory and Liberal in 2010 , would have no chance of forming a govt , if we did not have a UK wide system , as they would alwasys be outvoted by the Labour party

(with its advantage in first past the post )

Incidentally thats the reason Scotland was not independent 50 years ago , if the UK did not appeal to so many in Scotland that don't get properly represented , then their would have been a split years ago

880k Scots voted Lib or Tory in 2010 , 922 K Scots voted LAb , in 2005 , both groups got a share in govt

The Whole "Scotland does not get the Govt it votes for " is a simple mantra , yet completely false , truth teo tell there are a good many Joe Bloggs types in Scotland , with their

"Four legs Good , 2 legs bad "

I wish more young folk had read George Orwell

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@papko wrote:

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NOT all Scotland votes Labour

as has been pointed out numerous times

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Indeed - and only two post war general elections would have resulted in different UK governments had Scotland not been part of the UK.

[joe_bloggs*]

We read George Orwell at school,don't know if they still do,he was a democratic socialist who had a dislike of Toryism,hated inequality,racism,bit like a lot of Scots I suppose

[sir_arthur_strebe-grebling]

Andy Burnham says that the Conservatives in England are going to 'privatise the NHS'

Gordon Brown says that they aren't (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/11/gordon-brown-snp-nhs-privatisation-scotland).

Which of the Labour liars do we believe?

[evoman3957]

He didn't strike me as a particularly happy Man, spend half his life happy with what he was; only to then decide he wasn't happy with what he'd been. He then went overboard, living in deliberate squalor, as if to chastise himself; only to die of TB at the age of 47, probably brought about ( to a large extent ) by the lifestyle he had chosen to adopt.

[Anonymous]

let them go, for the scots to even contemplate leaving the union speaks volumes. i hope they do go, and when they do lets hope all those jocks living here will vacate their houses and buildings for we english to take and maybe help ease the housing shortage. I just hope we remove all our submarine and navy vessels and bring them back to England, prehaps place a few within the Tyne for we geordies to have ship building and repair on our river again...................so please vote yes.

[sir_arthur_strebe-grebling]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2752137/North-Korea-comes-support-Scottish-independence-star...

Kim comes out for independence: North Korea declares support for Alex Salmond

• Repressive communist state keen to develop trade links with Edinburgh
• Pyongyang-backed newspaper says separation 'very positive for Scotland'
• Regime's SNP embrace comes after Ukraine rebels voiced Salmond support

Alex Salmond has received an unlikely source of international support – after North Korea came out in favour of a ‘Yes’ vote.

The repressive communist state is keen to develop trade links with Edinburgh – because they ‘like the taste of Scotch whisky’.

North Korea’s embrace of Mr Salmond comes after Russian separatists in Ukraine embarrassed the SNP after launching an online campaign to support independence.

[joe_bloggs*]

Its no wonder the Yes campaign doesn't want to debate with George Galloway:

https://audioboo.fm/boos/2281076-george-galloway-argues-independence-is-the-greatest-threat-to-edinb...

[al**bear]

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@lambsy_uk wrote:

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Thanks for the reply, what is it they believe Thatcher and her ilk stand for?

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Totally market driven economics

Their dismantling of the Welfare state and the NHS (including BLiar in a lot of this)

Their xenophobic hatred of Public housing & in a Publicly run subsidised Rail system

Their War on Union and Workers rights

To me it is quite hard to list the reasons as they are so obvious

[papko]

The 40% of Scots who vote labour garner 70% of the MPS in Scotland 

 Its the first past the post system and boundary changes that need reforming or introduce prop rep 

 The SNP bang on about Scotland but they mean Labour and 40% of the Pop

 in 2010 37 % of the Scottissh electorate voted Tory or Libe dem , yet they only got 12 Mp.s in Scotland 

 they had 30k votes less than the LAb vote in Scotland in 2005 , which returned a Tony Blair .

 If 

 Scotland ALL Voted LAB and got Tory , we would not be having a referendum we would have an armed uprising 

 Since the % differecnes we are talking about are between 37% and 42% etc , that is why we are having a debate , there is already consensus 

 Scotland is not unique , the whole UK shows similar vagaries of the first past the post system 

in 2005 Tony Blari got a 35 seat majorty in the Commons , even though 35% of the elctorate voted for him 

[papko]

they look like second cousins those two , 

 or is that a picture of a younger Alex Salmond ?

[papko]

@BEar 

 Scots hate the name Tory , but it dont stop them going about their ways ina Tory fashion 

 when it comes to buying their council houses and taking part in Govt sell offs , Scots did more than their share 

 same as they took to the Empire with agusto 

 What do you think is going to happen ? You live in Glasgow ?

 i live in Fife , and would guess at 60=40 against here , but we are in Lib dem country 

What do you think the result will be ?

 I will be gutted if YES win 

To put that on a scale for those who may not know , If Scotland lost to England in 10 world cup finals in succession , i could not be more gutted 

😉

[lambsy_uk]

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@al**bear wrote:

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@lambsy_uk wrote:

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Thanks for the reply, what is it they believe Thatcher and her ilk stand for?

---

Totally market driven economics

Their dismantling of the Welfare state and the NHS (including BLiar in a lot of this)

Their xenophobic hatred of Public housing & in a Publicly run subsidised Rail system

Their War on Union and Workers rights

To me it is quite hard to list the reasons as they are so obvious

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So as opposed to a market driven economy would they prefer centrally planned? So the Scots want to vote for autonomy and then return their newly gained freedoms back to government!? Are they planning to further subsidise underutilised services and goods of low demand by use of the public purse? Will this require a tax rise?

Should we have continued running businesses at a loss and buying resources at inflated prices? Did people want to end up like Greece or Spain?

Last time I looked the Welfare State was still in place along with the NHS!

How is a hatred of public housing considered to be xenophobic?!

Why should people who don't use railways subsidise those who do? Would you uphold a subsidy for travel by air, car, bus, bike, motorcycle, boat or taxi?

The war against unions was necessary to address an imbalance in power and influence and to counter the abuse of worker's rights!

Do the Scots really plan a utopia where a Scottish government determines the prices of goods and services, controls the distribution of goods and services and determines wages. Where empowered unions can better influence their pay and conditions, all can live in cheap social housing and can travel to London to work in England on subsidised trains? Why not subsidised air travel? Are they planning to extend the welfare state and NHS? Are their aims realistic, who's paying?

[electric*mayhem*band]

I think Alex Salmond is on one huge ego trip. He hasn't attracted this sort of media exposure since he resigned as leader of the SNP in 2000, and appears to be revelling in his new found fame. A bit like a preening and postulating Simon Cowell. I hope the 'No' contingency win on Thursday, if for no other reason than to give Salmond a resounding slap in his smug and complacent face. 

[evoman3957]

[joe_bloggs*]

Just found a leaked letter from Cameron:

[cee-dee]

An "interesting" proposal?:-

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/12/scottish-independence-jim-sillars-nationalise_n_5810496.h...