Are the Jockanese really going to go for it?

[sir_arthur_strebe-grebling]

Tonight's opinion polls look like Salmond's promise of a marxist state, funded by fruit from the magic money tree, is proving irresistible and the people living in Scotland may well vote to pull the plug.

Quite why they are being allowed to destroy my country - the United Kingdom - is a key question but at least, without Scotland, we wouldn't have many Labour governments in future, so there is a bright side.

[margaret*e]

Al. they were discussing this on local radio a few days ago.

I can see very strong calls going out for Federalism in England so that the Midlands, the NW & NE etc, wanting their own Assemblies, so that their mostly non Tory populace can have control over their own affairs

[papko]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

The last Stat. I heard today, was that if Scotland votes for independence; Lib. Dems. will lose 1 in 5 of all their MP's and Labour will be less popular than a F**T in a Spacesuit................Cameron & the Conservatives??........well as only 3 people in Scotland vote conservative anyway, they'll be in power until the year 3000.

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Not true 

 416 K Scots voted Tory in 2010 

 and 465k voted Liberal 

 880k Scots have a stake in the coaltion 

 this compared to 922k Scots who voted for Tony Blair in 2005 (and gave him a 69 seat majority ) 

 it is the biggest myth in Politics , that "Scotland hates Tories " and one Panda etc

 Its the first past the post system that is too blame

 922k Scots voted labour and got 43 MP;s

 880k Scots voted lib con and got 12 Mp;s

 in Scotland

 here is the link

That's the Scottish diet you describe , "early nights and plenty of veg "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Scotland

[joe_bloggs*]

If as you say the Scots don't hate Tories,how come it's been mainly labour MP's running around like blue assed flies for the no campaign? If Cameron is that well liked in Scotland and is so concerned for the union,why has he not been campaigning at public meetings and the like instead of him being on one long holiday?
In 1979 916,155 voted Tory & 22 Tory MP's got elected,it's been all downhill since for the poor Tories in Scotland,and if the yes camp win,it's goodbye to Cameron as well

[papko]

Did you check the link out Joe 

 If "Scots hate Tories " why do they poll what they poll 

it seems to me when MAggie was setting about her reforms , it did cause a lot of upset , and she could have handled it more benignly , but it had to be done and LAB would have done the same , though might have taken another 20 years 

 Reason CAMeron , has problems is that Alex Salmond has tunred this into a protest vote against teh Govt ,  one side has ingerited a finacial mess and must try to balance the books  ( a mess inherited form a Scots dominated Scots majority voted LAb party ,m who ended ther social experiment , in specatacular bank collpases , which brought down the country further ) 

 Welll Cam has to defend all that , and no doubt Jimmy Saville and war in iraq 

 And all Salmond has to do is 

 We give you free prescriptions 

 we give you Bridge tolls free

You get Free education 

 one gives out sweets the other , gives out cod liver oil , So whose got the harder job ?

IMO it is shamelsee the way Salmond promises everything to every demographis , hes going to slash corporation tax , and increase all the wages , at teh same time as keeping spending down , and services up 

 And all those , who wont up the hill to get a job , are voting to break up a 300 year old country , for a promise of Tartan Disneyland !

 it is shocking 

 I agree Cameron has ben dosing at the wheel , and "Better together " have been laughable , like something out of "Dads army " 

 the best man for the UNion 

 is

George Galloway 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29062461

[al**bear]

The Scots do hate the 'Tories', even people who put an X beside one of their candidates, hate the 'TORIES'

In Scotland you vote for the Conservative and Unionist Party, mostly up here it is still the party of MacMillan and Heath.

In my lifetime we had a Conservative run Glasgow, along with large areas of the rest of the Country, if we had a Parliament in Holyrood then, the Conservatives could have won it, maybe with the help of the Old Liberal party (whose voters, hate the present LibDem party as well)

It is Thatchers (Camerons) US style of conservatism that is an anathema, even to lots of Conservative voters up here.

The YES camp are celebrating wildly about the news that the 3 London politicos in suits are coming North tomorrow,. Everything that is hated about Westminster in a triple package - Clegg, Miliband & Cameron. The only thing that could be worse, would be sending a Margaret Thatcher impersonator, ordering the Scots to vote NO, on a Dumfries to Thurso tour, the Day before the vote.

[lhasa.two]

The answers may already be there but as I haven't followed this referendum debate in detail,  maybe someone could answer the following questions for me?

Where is the voice of the Scottish business community and what are their views on independence?

Yesterday there was a drop in share prices for several large Scottish companies and the pound dipped against the dollar.

Secondly why is the SNP so convinced they are going to get all the oil/gas revenue?

Does Scotland "own" that part of the North Sea? 

It seems they are relying very heavily on this income to subsidise all the changes they want to make.

Thirdly, will an Independent Scotland be taking on their share of the debt created by RBS and bailed out by the government with our taxes?

It seems to me that Scotland already has a well supported NHS, free uni tuition and several other subsidies that the rest of the UK don't get. Apart from the "emotional"  historic argument for independence, I don't see what else they gain by going it alone. Surely as they have Westminster representation it's about negotiating harder for the things they need. 

The Scots are hugely talented people so why are so many not living there and making a contribution to the Scottish economy and culture? It seems to me more are living outside of the country than in it. It can't just be the fault of Westminster, can it?

[lambsy_uk]

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al**bear wrote:

The Scots do hate the 'Tories'

Why?

[evoman3957]

I guess because they perceive them as being the Party of the " Haves", as opposed to Labour as the Party of the "Have nots" and like so many; they think the "Haves" should have less and the "Have nots" should have more. Some of the wealthy ARE obscenely wealthy and usually off of the backs of their workers, who really aren't THAT well off...........so there is a case to be debated.

[lambsy_uk]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

I guess because they perceive them as being the Party of the " Haves", as opposed to Labour as the Party of the "Have nots" and like so many; they think the "Haves" should have less and the "Have nots" should have more. Some of the wealthy ARE obscenely wealthy and usually off of the backs of their workers, who really aren't THAT well off...........so there is a case to be debated.

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Could they not be perceived as the party of "we'll help you to gett off your ass and thrive" rather than the party of "we'll help you thrive while you're on your ass"?

I understand why people want more wealth but I have no understanding why people wish others to have less wealth, any thoughts?

[evoman3957]

Well personally, although I'm no millionaire, I'm happy with My lot. I guess if I'd wanted to be an Entrepreneur, possibly take some risks ( like remortgaging my House as some have done ), then I would have deserved to reap the rewards. There are always going to be people, in this World, who are better off and worse off than you are..............but it's being happy with YOUR lot that matters.

[lambsy_uk]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

Well personally, although I'm no millionaire, I'm happy with My lot. I guess if I'd wanted to be an Entrepreneur, possibly take some risks ( like remortgaging my House as some have done ), then I would have deserved to reap the rewards. There are always going to be people, in this World, who are better off and worse off than you are..............but it's being happy with YOUR lot that matters.

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Absolutely!

Rather than concern myself with what others have I appreciate what I/we have. So when people are not happy with their lot, why do they turn their attention to wanting to ruin what others have?! Bringing others down to their level seems to be as satisfying as improving their own lot; what leads to such a state of mind?

[evoman3957]

I guess it's the difference between those that think they're OWED a living and those that realise they need to EARN a living. We have to be naive not to know that demographics can effect such things ( where you live, jobs available in that area, climate even, etc. etc. ). I was always prepared to go where the work was ( in my youth ) and was in the Oil Fields of Saudi Arabia at the age of 18, where I spent a good few years. Success isn't going to come to you ( you collectively, not you personally you'll understand ).........you have to go out there and hunt for it. I've never been one to buy anything ( except a House ) unless I bought it for cash, if I didn't have the money; i waited until I did. These Days, if a lot of people want something ( some of our kids included ) out comes the old credit card and they get it INSTANTLY. That mentality ( to a great extent ) became the Country's mentality and it spent money it simply didn't have, not giving a second thought to the fact that it had to be paid back, sooner or later, WITH INTEREST. Then, as always seems to be the case, they start giving a kicking to the people who are trying to address the problem; not the people who caused the problem. You get this " Oh, well that's past now.......so lets move on ". If somebody had access to their bank account ( personally )and Bankrupt THEM, I bet they wouldn't want to forget about it so quickly. Yes, I know it was the Money Men who caused the damage and it annoys me intensely they they don't seem to be paying for it nearly enough; if at all, but here lies the rub. They are also the same people who can get us out of the mess they caused, so how do you handle it. You curtail their powers, impose considerably more restraints and checks on them ( like some little boy who can't be trusted any more ) and you let them suffer the embarrassment of that; while telling them to sort out the mess they caused. Does that help the rest of us, who are suffering the consequences, NO........but we will get out of it. We often suffer in life, through no fault of our own, we can either throw our arms in the air in despair and give up; or grit our teeth, dig in and get through it............yes I know it's an old Cliche, but what doesn't kill you; really does make you stronger.

[lambsy_uk]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

yes I know it's an old Cliche, but what doesn't kill you; really does make you stronger.

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An old cliche but so true!

My first 6 years of childhood were spent in a Warwickshire town and then we moved to a city in the West Midlands. My new primary school was a bit of a culture shock but nothing compared to the Comprehensive I ended up at. 5 years of grief later I left with only one grade of any note! My school days were spent just trying to get through them in one piece, this didn't leave much time for learning.

Still I wasn't thick and managed to get an apprenticeship in engineering, didn't like the **bleep**-hole factories I ended up working in but I stuck it out until I was made redundant a short while after completing the apprenticeship. After some jobs in sales and warehouses I enrolled at college which led to university 10 years after leaving school.

15 years after leaving school I finally got a job that I quite liked and would pay me enough to support some ambition; a home and family. Been made redundant twice since then and my current job isn't the best, have to travel 90 miles per day for the priviledge but one does what one has to.

But there's not much I'd change; despite the horrible school I attended I met some great friends who still remain today. The **bleep** I went through made me the person I am, nurtured resillience, resolve and an appriciation for all I have. I am indeed stronger due to the things I didn't let kill me!

[evoman3957]

Good on You.

[lambsy_uk]

Cheers Evo 

[joe_bloggs*]

Interesting article in the New Statesman:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/independence-scottish-mind-has-shown-failure-british-na...


Maybe, just maybe, the immense changes and upheaval about to take place could see a progressive-minded country and culture governing itself with compassion and decency on this island of Britain. It might just give hope to the people of the rUK to summon up the energy and force to challenge the entrenched forces and assumptions which have dominated Westminster and British politics and society for the last three decades. It is time to break free, not in some nationalist sense, but from the vested interests and orthodoxies which have so dominated British society and public life for so long.

A lot of people around the country are feeling the same,in the north east we feel we've always been ignored by governments especially Tory ones who only seem to pander to the home counties and their wealthy friends,but the whole London establishment are in a blind panic promising Scotland the moon if only they'd stay,I just read Cameron was close to tears when making his plea today,shed a few tears Davy boy for the thousands of people who are and have suffered under your leadership,and shed a few more for the families of those who took their own life because of your governments policies

[sir_arthur_strebe-grebling]

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:
It is time to break free, not in some nationalist sense, but from the vested interests and orthodoxies which have so dominated British society and public life for so long.

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I agree.

It is long past time to break free from the vested interests and orthodoxies ...

• the bloated public sector, run for the benefit of the staff rather than the public, with their overpaid union leaders spouting marxist propaganda;
• local authorities, usually the biggest employer in any area, unresponsive to the public;
• the lazy stupid teachers, dumbing-down our schools and ruining childrens' life-chances;
• the Nationalised Death Service, killing patients left right and centre;
• the anti-British Broadcasting Corporation, filled with loony lefties undermining my country, at my expense
• etc

[bookhunter2007]

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@sir_arthur_strebe-grebling wrote:

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:
It is time to break free, not in some nationalist sense, but from the vested interests and orthodoxies which have so dominated British society and public life for so long.

---

I agree.

It is long past time to break free from the vested interests and orthodoxies ...

• the bloated public sector, run for the benefit of the staff rather than the public, with their overpaid union leaders spouting marxist propaganda;
• local authorities, usually the biggest employer in any area, unresponsive to the public;
• the lazy stupid teachers, dumbing-down our schools and ruining childrens' life-chances;
• the Nationalised Death Service, killing patients left right and centre;
• the anti-British Broadcasting Corporation, filled with loony lefties undermining my country, at my expense
• etc

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I thought the idea was to look to the future, not timewarp back to 1950s America?

[al**bear]

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@lambsy_uk wrote:

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@al**bear wrote:

The Scots do hate the 'Tories'

Why?

-----------------------------------

They hated and still Hate everything Thatcher and her Ilk (Cameron etc) stood/stand for , they view her years as when Britain was destroyed and power was sucked into the SE and the City of London

She changed the Tory Party into a more US Republican party entity - way to the Right of the Old Conservative Party of Macmillan & Heath

It is also Her fault, we are having this vote in the first place, the SNP were a rump party before She moved into Number 10. It is her fault that the '79 group' who had formed inside the SNP, Salmond and his gang of very left wing Republicans, they had been thrown out, but due to Maggie came back in and to took over the party  -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/79_Group

[al**bear]

Only days after a spate of polls suggested the referendum race was neck and neck, the Survation poll for the Daily Record has found that the

NO vote is now at 53%, giving the pro-UK campaign a six point gap over Yes.

As I pointed out the YouGov poll (earlier this week) was along the same lines, before they adjusted their figures