HMRC data sharing

[charliestell]

Can someone confirm when they have stated "starting January 1st 2024" they will being to share all data with HMRC does that mean that all sales starting from Jan 1st 2024 will be shared in the new format? I know historically that they have shared data but is this new rule in relation to all sales from 1st Jan 24 or everything historically?

I'm not a master criminal or a huge fraudster I literally sell £200 - £300 a month on here so think I may be over this limit and fear a taxman letter. 

[b_quik2click]

yes, i don't deny the trading aspect.. im saying that I report to HMRC regarding the sales and claim my trading allowance... even though half of the earnings will come from personal used items.

I need to speak to Ebay to clarify what i need to do for my account to get setup correctly. 

thanks! 

[papso22]

You do not need to speak to eBay.  The legality of your account for consumer law purposes is above their pay grade.

You can upgrade your account to a business one on the site very easily.

[b_quik2click]

well the issue i have is that i want to continue selling old used items - as I'm doing massive house clearance from family's years of hoarding stuff.. 

so I need to setup correctly so I can manage / separate the 2.. if I simply upgrade , then the personal items being sold get tied up in business assets which i cannot claim expenses for as they are not likely to have purchase / invoice receipts from original purchase, and I would not want to potentially pay tax on items sold that have been used (with tax already paid on them through hard earnings).. 

it may be I need to create a 2nd business ebay account and sell all trade good only that one..

[jckl1957]

To help you differentiate between the stuff you are buying to sell and your own unwanted items, you could upgrade this account to a business account and open another account for your personal items.  No need to speak to Ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sellercentre/selling/create-ebay-business-account

HMRC will not be interested in the type of Ebay account you have. 

You do seem confused about the 'trading allowance'.  Think of it more as a threshold.  You are allowed to sell £1000 worth of stuff as a trader before you have any tax liability.  Over and above that and you need to complete an assessment for HMRC.

As far as selling your own, personal items goes, there is no tax liability ,outside of CGT which generally does not apply to the majority of sales on Ebay.

[*vyolla*]

Upgrade this existing one (as it has some feedback) to a business account.

Create a new private account to list your personal items on. Just sign up again with the same details but a different email address (each eBay account requires its own unique email address).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/account/signing-ebay-account/signing-ebay-account?id=4191&st=3&pos=5&que...

So much easier for accounting then.

[b_quik2click]

sorry.. no im not confused.. i think just misunderstanding what i'm saying..

I know HMRC don't really care what kind of Ebay account I have.. that's not what i was saying...

The threshold is £1000 before reporting is required to HMRC for self assessment.. HMRC will assess your taxable amount based on your overall income with your job, investment income, rental income, etc etc..

Trading allowance is different.. anyone can claim this but then cannot claim expense in their tax return...so I can earn 12,570 (combined income) before I pay any tax (NI contributions is different matter)..

I can use my 1k trading allowance on any of my income from trading but it means i cannot claim expenses as well .. so if I make 5K sales I can choose to either claim 1K trading allowance (which effectively is an expense allowance).. or i can report all trading expenses on the self assessment form... this is choice.. not case of requirment or not.. the tax liability kicks in after my total income for the year exceeds 12570 (personal allowance)

my ebay account is a separate matter and that's something I will speak to ebay about because i have certain other questions on how I manage existing account and sync the 2 accounts through setting up a new one..  

[papso22]

You can't 'sync' two eBay accounts.  You have to keep them separate. 

Seriously though,  you will get much better advice on here than you will from eBay CS. 

[ett1954]

@b_quik2click   ".. so if I make 5K sales I can choose to either claim 1K trading allowance (which effectively is an expense allowance).. or i can report all trading expenses on the self assessment form... this is choice.. not case of requirment or not.. the tax liability kicks in after my total income for the year exceeds 12570 (personal allowance)"

Lets take each part of your statement separately:  ".. so if I make 5K sales I can choose to either claim 1K trading allowance (which effectively is an expense allowance).. or i can report all trading expenses on the self assessment form... this is choice.. not case of requirment or not.." - incorrect; if you have a gross trading income of more than £1000 you are required to register for self assessment.  How else would HMRC know your trading profit to calculate any tax liability.

"the tax liability kicks in after my total income for the year exceeds 12570 (personal allowance)" - correct; however this does not negate your requirement to register for self assessment.

Your type of eBay account is nothing to do with HMRC but buying to sell is defined as trading and by law you are required to register as a business with eBay in order to comply with the Consumer Rights Act, 2015.  You were misinformed by eBay's customer services ........... don't worry you are not the first.

[ett1954]

@b_quik2click  "I can use my 1k trading allowance on any of my income from trading but it means i cannot claim expenses as well .. so if I make 5K sales I can choose to either claim 1K trading allowance (which effectively is an expense allowance).. or i can report all trading expenses on the self assessment form... this is choice.. not case of requirment or not.. the tax liability kicks in after my total income for the year exceeds 12570 (personal allowance)"

Let's take each part of your statement separately:  ".. so if I make 5K sales I can choose to either claim 1K trading allowance (which effectively is an expense allowance).. or i can report all trading expenses on the self assessment form... this is choice.. not case of requirment or not" - incorrect; once you take more than £1000 gross in trading you are required to register for self assessment.  How else would HMRC be able to calculate whether you had any tax liability?

"the tax liability kicks in after my total income for the year exceeds 12570 (personal allowance)" - correct; if any other income and your trading profit did not exceed £12750 you would not be liable for a tax.  However this does not negate your requirement for registering for self assessment if you are receiving more than £1000 gross on your trading.

With regard to you query on your other thread whether you need to register as a business.  Buying to sell is defined as trading and for a seller to meet their legal obligations under the Consumer Rights Act, 2015 you can only do this through an eBay business account.  Unfortunately you were misinformed by eBay's Customer Services ....... don't worry, you are not the first.

[b_quik2click]

https://www.litrg.org.uk/working/self-employment/trading-allowance#:~:text=The%20trading%20allowance...

If your trading income is more than £1,000

If your total gross trading income (before deducting any expenses) in the basis period for the tax year is more than £1,000 you can choose to deduct the trading allowance from the trading income instead of deducting your actual business expenses for the period. If you do this, the taxable profit from the activity will simply be the total income less the trading allowance. Claiming the trading allowance in this way is called partial relief.

Example: Sarah

Sarah has total income of £1,700 from selling home-baking at local monthly farmers markets in 2022/23, and she decides to claim the trading allowance. Her taxable profit from this activity is £700.

It 

[b_quik2click]

I absolutely will be completing a self-assessment, that's a given - the trading allowance can be used as part of your 1st 1000 limit or even if you make more than 1K, the tax is calculated baased on your net income after costs + other income like salary from job. 

so claiming the 1K trading allowance just means taxable income would be total sales (e.g. 5K) minus 1K allowance = 4K is taxable IF my total income is already above personal allowance of 12570

basically you can earn from as many sources of income as you want tax free up to the 12.5K mark - but self assessment is a declaration of income from non PAYE employment where tax is already taken out.

have you tried the tax calculator -? 

https://taxscouts.com/self-employed-tax-returns/what-tax-do-you-pay-if-you-sell-on-ebay/#:~:text=Tha...

the site also states:

Do I need to submit a Self Assessment tax return to claim it?

Whether you submit a Self Assessment tax return depends on how much you earn from self-employment.

If your income from self-employment is under £1,000 and you don’t have another reason to file a tax return such as employment income over £100k, then no. You don’t even have to register for self assessment in this case.

On the other hand, if your gross trading income is over £1,000, then you will need to report this income to HMRC by completing a self assessment. 

On your Self Assessment, you should deduct the Trading Allowance and tick the box to ensure HMRC are aware that you are doing so.

[ett1954]

I am not arguing that there are not ways to minimise your tax burden but these are computated by HMRC if you are receiving a gross income from self employments in excess of £1000.

I would rather belive this from HMRC's own site (my bold):

BIM86015 - TMIA - Computation: Partial Relief - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

"An individual qualifies for partial relief for a tax year if the individual has relevant income (trading and miscellaneous income) for the tax year which exceeds the trading allowance, and an election by the individual for partial relief has been made for the tax year. This election will be made by the individual completing a Self Assessment return."

[the_book_seekers]

I absolutely will be completing a self-assessment, that's a given - the trading allowance can be used as part of your 1st 1000 limit or even if you make more than 1K, the tax is calculated baased on your net income after costs + other income like salary from job. 

so claiming the 1K trading allowance just means taxable income would be total sales (e.g. 5K) minus 1K allowance = 4K is taxable IF my total income is already above personal allowance of 12570

Claiming the trading allowances means not being able to claim expenses. If expenses exceed £1000 you would be paying more tax than necessary.

[b_quik2click]

I think we're both saying the same thing mate.. just in a different way... leave it at that! I know when I do SA with HMRC it will be clear as day what I have to complete and what I can claim or not..  

On that late night note, CIAO

[reel2reel2]

Sonm is it 30 items that total 1740 or can it be 100 items totalling 1740?

I also saw on one thread someone said that if you sell over 30 items in a year that eBay will pass on you NI number. I believe that to be rubbish cause unless you have given them your NI number thay don't have access to such personal data, and in such a fantastical scenario wouldn't that be a breach of data protection from what ever source the received the data from. People need to stop putting things like that on these threads. 

I was forced to retire last year after working hard for 33 years. I have always had an interest in fixing things so I started fixing fishing reels and selling them mainly cause I enjoyed doing it and to keep my mind active. If I made a little bit of a profit then that was a bonus, but know I've taken all my listings down because I have sold 33 things since Jan and made 750 after eBay fees. That doesn't take into account the hours spent cleaning and repairing them and the parts I have to buy the postage costs and the other related outgoings.  The worst outlaws out there are the people making the rules screwing the workers of the country while picking up stupid amounts of money and awarding contracts to their mates dodgy contracts during covid. Remember the expenses scandal I bet the did go back very far to see how much they screwed the system.

What about the fleas markets are they next people sell stuff they have bought to flip do they pay tax or put a self assessment in. I would love to see how much they pull in compared to the costs of carrying out such an operation. Also every business involved will be adversely affected eBay, etsy, vinted, Amazon, depop, and all the couriers that are used by small time sellers. Maybe eBay will have to lower there extortionate fees to tempt people into carrying on.

[jckl1957]

For accurate information from Ebay on what they will be sharing with HMRC, including National Insurance Numbers, see here.

For more information about UK digital sales reporting and what information will be shared with HMRC, visit our Help page.

It also states:

Tip
If you are required to do so but don't provide the requisite information, your account may be subject to payout holds or selling blocks.

It is likely that sooner or later, maybe not until January 2025, Ebay will ask all of their sellers for their NI number.

[*vyolla*]

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@reel2reel2 wrote:

Sonm is it 30 items that total 1740 or can it be 100 items totalling 1740?

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It's whatever is reached first - 30 items sold or £1740 made. 

[the_book_seekers]

ebay will need everyone's NI number or UTR by the date of transfer in Jan 25 and must allow a reasonable amount of time to collect them. I think they must start asking in the next few months.

[jckl1957]

I am sure we will know when they start - every other question in the forum will be 'Why are Ebay asking for my NI number?'

[*vyolla*]

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@jckl1957 wrote:

I am sure we will know when they start - every other question in the forum will be 'Why are Ebay asking for my NI number?'

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And the other questions will be questioning the legality of it because somebody's friend on Facebook once stood next to a lawyer at a bus stop who said it wasn't.