HMRC data sharing

[charliestell]

Can someone confirm when they have stated "starting January 1st 2024" they will being to share all data with HMRC does that mean that all sales starting from Jan 1st 2024 will be shared in the new format? I know historically that they have shared data but is this new rule in relation to all sales from 1st Jan 24 or everything historically?

I'm not a master criminal or a huge fraudster I literally sell £200 - £300 a month on here so think I may be over this limit and fear a taxman letter. 

[film_fan_pictures]

As I wrote on an earlier post, I use another collectors platform which specializes in ephemera. and has members world wide, although mainly in Europe & the UK.

A few months ago they requested all members to enter thier  TIN or NI numbers into thier system. That had nothing to do with our HMRC at the time but was in order to comply with a US law called DACS 7 which the US demanded everybody complies with if wanting to sell to the US.

Like many I declined to give  them access to my tax details and now cant sell to the US from that platform but as I dont sell to the US anyway its not really a problem.

Ebay at present don't have our NI numbers but it does have a lot of other info about us and should they request it then my reaction would be the same as my reaction to Del----e, I wouldn't give it.

Not because I want to hide anything from HMRC & if HMRC wanted my Ebay details I would be happy to give them that info, but because I wouldn't trust Ebay with it. As said they already have a lot the NI number would be the last piece of the puzzle.

If that meant I could no longer sell my collection then sadly my kids will have to throw it in the skip when I have gone.

[joyboy_luffy]

Wanted to know because tax year runs from April to April each year. So how does this work then? They look at how much money you make/sell over 30 items from Jan to Jan then?

[*devils.advocate*]

The UK is an odd-one out.

Most countries (under this scheme) tax years run January/December.

UK runs April/March.

It's like many other things, if you need to submit details, nothing has changed.

[myriad*seller]

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@film_fan_pictures wrote:

As I wrote on an earlier post, I use another collectors platform which specializes in ephemera. and has members world wide, although mainly in Europe & the UK.

A few months ago they requested all members to enter thier  TIN or NI numbers into thier system. That had nothing to do with our HMRC at the time but was in order to comply with a US law called DACS 7 which the US demanded everybody complies with if wanting to sell to the US.

Like many I declined to give  them access to my tax details and now cant sell to the US from that platform but as I dont sell to the US anyway its not really a problem.

Ebay at present don't have our NI numbers but it does have a lot of other info about us and should they request it then my reaction would be the same as my reaction to Del----e, I wouldn't give it.

Not because I want to hide anything from HMRC & if HMRC wanted my Ebay details I would be happy to give them that info, but because I wouldn't trust Ebay with it. As said they already have a lot the NI number would be the last piece of the puzzle.

If that meant I could no longer sell my collection then sadly my kids will have to throw it in the skip when I have gone.

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They will hold your funds from all and any sales until you do provide the information 

[film_fan_pictures]

"They will hold your funds from all and any sales until you do provide the information "

Then they wont be holding on to very much 🙂 and certainly not enough to trust them with my NI Number.

Beside if push came to shove re funds I could always just give refunds which I believe comes out of the ammount held.

[papso22]

If your sales are over one of the thresholds and you refuse to provide your NI number, then I am pretty sure eBay will put you on a red list and provide your account information to HMRC as risky.  

You will not avoid HMRC scrutiny by refusing to comply and may well get more attention from the tax man by doing so.

[myriad*seller]

Yes, refusal to supply NI number will look suspicious to HMRC

It is a legal requirement to provide the information

Nothing to do with eBay rules and everything to do with a legal requirement to provide the details to prove you are not evading tax

Refusal to supply legally required information might make HMRC look at people even more closely. They can go back 20 years to make sure all taxes due have been paid if they suspect an attempt to evade supplying the required information...

[the_book_seekers]

I quite understand that many will be nervous/reluctant to hand over their national insurance number to ebay. But we went through the same thing with managed payments and photo ID, driving licences etc. ebay has had this information for around 4 years or more and we have not been informed of any data breaches (so far).

It's going to come down to personal choice, but it will mean the end of selling for those who refuse. For anyone signing up in 2024 and onwards it will just be a part of the sign processes for which ever company they decide to go with.

[stavi-263]

Right, ok, so is it as simple as if your account on ebay is a 'private individual seller' you won't have to pay tax? You'll just pay the tax if you have a business account?

So I'm registered as a private seller but sell more than 30 items a year and am over the £1700 per year in sales or whatever it is threshold but as I'm a private seller, I wont be taxed?

[jaws30342015]

No anything a private or business one sells from January 1st 2024 until
January 2025 onwards will.be reported to hmrc

[555njp]

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@stavi-263 wrote:

Right, ok, so is it as simple as if your account on ebay is a 'private individual seller' you won't have to pay tax? You'll just pay the tax if you have a business account?

So I'm registered as a private seller but sell more than 30 items a year and am over the £1700 per year in sales or whatever it is threshold but as I'm a private seller, I wont be taxed?

---

The account type isn't actually relevant to a tax liability. If you are selling as a business you need a business account to meet trading standards, legal requirements, etc. but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily pay tax either.

Private individual accounts are for people selling off their own unwanted stuff.
So as long as that is all it's used for then irrespective of whether or not a threshold is breached, you are correct to assume there would be no tax liability. However, if you go through a selling threshold your data will still be given to HMRC who in some cases may ask you to confirm you are selling your own things.

What you are not allowed to do is trade (run a business) on a private account.

Doing so falls foul of the law and could have tax implications depending on individual circumstances. These accounts are the ones I suspect HMRC will take a much greater interest in. How they'll work out who's actually doing this I don't know. Some are blatantly obvious, others much less so.

[stavi-263]

That makes sense, thanks a lot for your help.
Hard to really know where I stand as I'll end up selling over the threshold but I don't buy to sell I just have a lot of collectible items etc that I've gained over the years and am currently selling so who knows how they'll see it

[the_book_seekers]

If you've already exceeded the £1700 mark before the end of February and you keep selling at this rate for the rest of the year, you may have to prepare for some attention from HMRC. You say you're selling collected items, but if HMRC were to look at what you're selling they may question duplicate items you have listed especially the brand new items.

[tinbobbin10]

  Just to follow up with the question from charliestell-- my question specifically is- Is  the shared data to HMRC being sent only for  items  sold from 1st january 2024, or will it include all those in the tax year 2023-2024, or will it go even further back than that?

[the_book_seekers]

The new regulations start with Jan 24 to Jan 25. HMRC can request further data if they find something they want to investigate such as fraud or tax evasion. 

[jaws30342015]

>From 2024 onwards

[b_quik2click]

Im in similar boat - although i'm selling garage sale stuff and old hoarded collection but also selling new items for exra cash. combined, they exceed the threshold but no way be able to distingish via ebay reports to HMRC that the old stuff sold amounts to half the sales revenue.. also regarding old personal items, we are to report if a single item (or a set, like furniture, jewellry, etc) is worth more than £6K then it's reportable.. as well as if you continue to exceed the £1K threshold even on personal belongings - they consider this as trading as usual junk yard selling should not amount to more than the limit. 

LASTLY the Threshold for private / personal items for sale will be reduced to £500 from 2025 on wards, as far as I'm aware from HMRC gov site.

[the_book_seekers]

also regarding old personal items, we are to report if a single item (or a set, like furniture, jewellry, etc) is worth more than £6K then it's reportable - you're talking about Capital Gains Tax and there are items that are exempt from this tax (The limit will be dropped to £3000 soon).

as well as if you continue to exceed the £1K threshold even on personal belongings - they consider this as trading as usual junk yard selling should not amount to more than the limit.  Is this your personal view or do you have some information to evidence this.

LASTLY the Threshold for private / personal items for sale will be reduced to £500 from 2025 on wards, as far as I'm aware from HMRC gov site.  Can you post a link to this information on the .gov site. I've had a look and can't find it. There currently is no limit for personal selling. The £1000 is a business allowance and the £1700 (ish) 30 sales are reporting limits to HMRC, but do not necessarily mean tax will be due. 

[b_quik2click]

the key thing to remember here is not tax liability.. it is reportabilty. 

SO HMRC will have your sales data from ebay (and other platforms) - and sellers have to continue reporting to HMRC (the new legislation is just making it compulsory for platforms to provide data instead of previously HMRC requesting it)..

the tax element is if you are over the selling threshold of 1K and the profits from this are over and above your annual tax allowance of 12K (apprx) ... then the profit is taxable over and above your annual salary threshold.

so in your regular job or your own business the first 12K (or so..not sure exact tax allowance) - this is tax free, then anything over taxed as normal so your ebay / side hustle profits are added to that amount ..

What I'm not sure of, is if selling old items above 1K is part of the taxable income or discarded ?

But how is this proven to HMRC - they only have a sales report and probably detailed inventory sales report.. but how can they judge from our self assessment if we are genuinely selling old stuff or new stuff for trading???

Any advice or feedback welcome!! 

Thanks

[*vyolla*]

If you're completing a self assessment then you're trading.

There'll be an algorithm  -  triggers for a nudge letter will likely be lots of new items or items in the same category, clothing/shoes in vastly differing sizes, I'd have thought.

Sellers will probably be then asked to confirm that they are indeed a private seller, where it goes from there I couldn't tell you. I'd assume that HMRC will be happy with most declarations but may decide that some are borderline trading and worth keeping an eye on and some are definitely trading (we all know a few delusional sellers here who are in denial about trading despite having numerous selling IDs and a website, even).