HMRC data sharing

[charliestell]

Can someone confirm when they have stated "starting January 1st 2024" they will being to share all data with HMRC does that mean that all sales starting from Jan 1st 2024 will be shared in the new format? I know historically that they have shared data but is this new rule in relation to all sales from 1st Jan 24 or everything historically?

I'm not a master criminal or a huge fraudster I literally sell £200 - £300 a month on here so think I may be over this limit and fear a taxman letter. 

[*vyolla*]

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@liha_3211 wrote:

THEY HAVE 24 PEOPLE TO DO ALL THIS DIGGING THEY ARE GIVING BOTTOM OF LADER TYPES MINIMUM WAGE A JOB LIKE EVEY THING THE TORIES TOUCH STARTS BROKEN STAYS BROKEN 

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Says a seller who is clearly trading as a business but on a private account. 

Honestly, you couldn't make this up. 

You obviously need to put your house in order now. 

[vikkipollardanddafyddthomas]

But it's near impossible to determine if someone bought something to resell or for the "joy of ownership" especially if there is a lot of time between the purchase and the sale.  It is hard to prove what your intentions are, unless for example you boasted all over the internet about all the stuff you've bought to "flip" (yes I know of people who do this!)

There is a user of these forums who does exactly this. They must have stated they are a private collector on at least 50 occasions, often angrily, yet they use the same username on a dedicated forum where they upload photos and go into great details of their latest finds including what they paid for them, generally to try and identify them and then put the same items for sale on one of their selling sites for vastly increased prices and again with the same username.  I highly doubt HMRC will be spending much time on piecing it all together but if they chose to, this user wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Some people think they are untouchable I guess. 

[litp*records]

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@vikkipollardanddafyddthomas wrote:

But it's near impossible to determine if someone bought something to resell or for the "joy of ownership" especially if there is a lot of time between the purchase and the sale.  It is hard to prove what your intentions are, unless for example you boasted all over the internet about all the stuff you've bought to "flip" (yes I know of people who do this!)

There is a user of these forums who does exactly this. They must have stated they are a private collector on at least 50 occasions, often angrily, yet they use the same username on a dedicated forum where they upload photos and go into great details of their latest finds including what they paid for them, generally to try and identify them and then put the same items for sale on one of their selling sites for vastly increased prices and again with the same username.  I highly doubt HMRC will be spending much time on piecing it all together but if they chose to, this user wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Some people think they are untouchable I guess. 

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Ahh yes 😉 

HMRC yes they might only have 24 staff for this department.  But I suspect most of it will be automated.  The "human" staff will only be there to check if the system has made a mistake.  And put letters in envelopes.

I know of someone in real life who is being done for fraud.  Well now HMRC are going back 10+ years into their affairs.  No one should underestimate what they're able to dig up about you

[bail.lia]

Is this something they are doing now?

I have never been asked for national insurance number and have been selling a while

[papso22]

See here for what ebay needs to do:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/account/regulatory/uk-digital-sales-reporting?id=5454&st=3&pos=1&query=U...

If you are buying your items with the intention of selling them then you need an ebay business account:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/selling-policies/selling-practices-policy/business-seller-polic...

[thepublandlord1972]

We should support, why? When they start chasing eBay, Amazon, Starbucks  et Al to pay reasonable amounts of tax I may just agree. Until then I would say  register your business in the EU and carry on. 

[papso22]

Are you declaring your sales to HMRC?  Your sales on your private account broke consumer law so perhaps you are also not accounting for tax as legally required.

[the_book_seekers]

Until then I would say  register your business in the EU and carry on. 

This probably wouldn't do any good. The new rules HMRC has signed up to are international with co-operation between member countries and the EU is signed up.

[tommystrezures]

If you are going to do that then avoid Austria, Belgium, Czech Rep, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Slovenia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden. They are all participating in this data sharing with their own relevant tax authorities,

Thereafter if you are going to sell in the EU, you are left with three places, Romania, Cyprus and Malta.... But of course all your sales are then subject to OSS and IOSS as you are trading within the EU.

Iceland, Norway are part of the EEA and they are also participating.

[jckl1957]

Ebay will supply your details to HMRC including full name, address, bank account details and NI number.  Ebay will ask you for your NI number if it is needed.

You do need to register as a business seller with Ebay and should already be submitting accurate tax returns.

@bail.lia

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

 Food for thought?

Fijitsu also supply HMRC with software 

[*vyolla*]

There's your £6 billion tax bill for selling a t-shirt then. 😀

[555njp]

I know AI has advanced considerably in the last few years, but it's still a big ask to interpret what constitutes 'trading' vs just clearing out the attic.
It would need to read and interpret every single sale rather than just add up some sales numbers. Also the raw data, although linked to individuals via an NI code, will come via different sources in different formats from each on line site.

A few years ago now I worked in a similar function auditing purchase and tool orders for value for money and compliance. This was for a large multi-national but the total of the accounts was only a few tens of thousands, not millions as we're talking now, and our orders were all pulled from one system in the same format.

There were around 120-150 people looking at these globally and in order to manage the data we had to have a threshold of $250k before we even looked at them otherwise it wasn't manageable and the potential savings to the company were too small to go after.

I'm guessing HMRC will similarly have to apply a fairly high threshold for the same reasons, at least for the initial round of checks?

Otherwise they'll get bogged down with thousands of Joe Bloggs accounts who had £5000 worth of sales, less fees and postage (without proving expenses if pursued further!), which at best will lead to a taxable sum of say £3000 at 20% = £600 yield to HMRC.
Unless they can get to that through a fully automated system, because of the man hours needed it won't be worth chasing.

However, Fred Bloggs with £150,000 of sales might be a bit different.....?

[papso22]

I am sure they will target their resources to the biggest risks, but they have a range of methods available, from nudge letters which can go out to many, all the way up to a full blown enquiry by an inspector.

No-one should 'wing it'.

[555njp]

No I agree, more curious than anything 😄

[mlv-1967]

Posted by mistake.

[caprims]

I also wonder how does the tax year calculated, I pressume if is since January 2024 and considering the tax year is April to April, technically the new allowance will restart 6th april ?
2. how to report if more than 30 transaction was made, do I need to register for a UTR number ??

[the_book_seekers]

The January to January timing may be to do with the last date for self assessment submission is Jan 31st.

ebay will be automatically reporting 30 plus sales to HMRC. As for registering for a UTR, if you are a business and your total yearly turnover (sales + postage costs) over £1000. If it is the answer is yes. 

[papso22]

The calendar year comes from the model rules for the new regulations.   I think almost all, if not all, other participants have calendar year tax years.  We, as is often the case,  are different.

[rainbowtrax]

@caprims The tax year is April to April but the new reporting legislation is from 1st January. At a guess, selling platforms will have to state how much relates to each tax year but no one knows the finer details yet.

The rules on whether you need to submit a self-assessment and whether you have a tax liability haven't changed. That's nothing to do with selling 30 items (which is just one of the new reporting thresholds that sales platforms have to adhere to). If you're trading and your annual turnover (not profit) is over £1,000 then you should be declaring. Whether you have tax to pay depends on your profits and any other income.

Taking a quick look at your sales for January so far, if that's a representative average of your usual turnover then you should already have been keeping basic records and submitting self-assessments as your annual turnover would be above the £1,000 trading allowance - but that doesn't necessarily mean that you have any tax due. I don't know how long you've been trading or at what level but the deadline for self-assessment for the 2022/23 tax year Jan 31st this year.