GPSR Compliance

[phoenix_vinyl_and_collectables]

After going through all the regulations my understanding is that if the item was made before the 13th December 2024 then the information GPSR information is not required. If the item was made after that date, then all the information is required. 

I spoke to a company called ARC who deal with GPSR and they explained how it works. They agreed with what is mentioned above and also stated that if you're selling second hand & vintage goods then it comes under a grey area. They also explained that under the new EU legislation even after you have filled out all the information, you will still need a representative in the EU as a point of contact. The cost of this is depending on what categories your items fall under example £400 to set up the point of contact in the EU and then an additional £400 for each category. So, CDs & Vinyl records come under media and concert t-shirts comes under clothing. 

The GPRS is nothing more than a quango, which is not needed. It should be based on the business turnover or threshold of items sold in the EU. 

If your a private seller, then the regulations don't affect you.

Ebay need to step in and clarify this or at best delay it.

[99shoesandmore]

Hello,

Me too, I was under the impression that this regulations only apply to listings put to market after december 13th, however my acc manager duly noted, that ITEMS ON EBAY ARE RENEWED EVERY 30 DAYS.

Basically, all items will be considered as new items after a certain point.

Hope this helps

[phoenix_vinyl_and_collectables]

The regulations has nothing to do with listings and when they are relisted. The general understanding of it is if items were made after 13th December 2024, then the information is required. 

[zzseller]

Surely information only required if item sold in EU or NI.

[myriad*seller]

Yes, if you block sales to EU and NI you don't need to comply

Most sellers are doing this as it is not cost effective to be able to comply 

[4_bathrooms]

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@phoenix_vinyl_and_collectables wrote:

The regulations has nothing to do with listings and when they are relisted. The general understanding of it is if items were made after 13th December 2024, then the information is required. 

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That isn't correct. You are referring to Article 51 which states:

"Member States shall not impede the making available on the market of products covered by Directive 2001/95/EC which are in conformity with that Directive and which were placed on the market before 13 December 2024."

I have highlighted "making available on the market" and "placed on the market" because they have specific legal meanings which are defined in the EU Commission's Blue Guide:

"A product is placed on the market when it is made available for the first time on the Union market. According to Union harmonisation legislation, each individual product can only be placed once on the Union market."

"For the purposes of Union harmonisation legislation, a product is placed on the market when it is made available for the first time on the Union market. This operation should be done by the manufacturer or by an importer (46). When a manufacturer or an importer supplies a product to a distributor (47) or an end-user for the first time, the operation is always labelled in legal terms as ‘placing on the market’. Any subsequent operation, for instance, from a distributor to distributor or from a distributor to an end-user is defined as making available.

As for ‘making available’, the concept of placing on the market refers to each individual product, not to a type of product, and whether it was manufactured as an individual unit or in series. Consequently, placing on the Union market can only happen once for each individual product across the EU and does not take place in each Member State. Even though a product model or type has been supplied before new Union harmonisation legislation laying down new mandatory requirements entered into force, individual units of the same model or type, which are placed on the market after the new requirements have become applicable, must comply with these new requirements."

Where sales through online marketplaces are concerned:

"Some products outside the EU can be bought directly by end-users in the EU online or through other means of distance sales. Although these products are deemed to be made available in the Union prior to any transaction for the purposes of checks by market surveillance authorities pursuant to Regulation (EU) 2019/1020, they are placed on the market at the moment an order by an end user has been placed and confirmed for a specific product already manufactured and subject of the transaction, and ready to be shipped."

Where eBay is concerned the vast majority of items will therefore have been "placed on the market" at the very moment an EU or NI established buyer places an order irrespective of when the item was manufactured and regardless whether it is new or used. 

[vintique*violet]

Thank you as information on this has been so confusing. 

I do not sell internationally since GSP came in, so will check now what else I need to block. 

[vinylscot]

Thanks for that explanation.

Could I ask how this applies to second hand items?

In your opinion....

Say I have a second-hand copy of the Dire Straits album "Brothers In Arms", released in 1985. This particular copy also seems to have been manufactured in UK then. I decide to list it on ebay next week, AFTER the compliance kicks in.

Now my particular item was offered to the market in 1985.

However I will not have introduced it into the market until the rules on compliance have taken effect.

If, to quote part of one of your own quotes  "A product is placed on the market when it is made available for the first time on the Union market. According to Union harmonisation legislation, each individual product can only be placed once on the Union market."

So, what is MY position - do I need to comply with the new rules or not? It was already placed on the market in 1985.

This has been touched on in other threads, but these are getting too long and confused now, and a definitive answer doesn't seem to have been given.

[vintique*violet]

From what I understand - You can sell it in the UK but not to the EU or NI.... 

BUT if my simple understanding is incorrect I am sure someone else here with more business acumen will advise. 

[vinylscot]

Thanks for trying to help, but you're completely missing the point. I'll wait for someone else to post, hopefully someone with a more complete understanding of the situation.

[vintique*violet]

No problem at all , thank you for acknowledging... it will be interesting to see some answers, as I have some old original records I am considering selling... Beatles White Label etc. which  have been in the loft for well over a decade +

[4_bathrooms]

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@vinylscot wrote:

Say I have a second-hand copy of the Dire Straits album "Brothers In Arms", released in 1985. This particular copy also seems to have been manufactured in UK then. I decide to list it on ebay next week, AFTER the compliance kicks in.

Now my particular item was offered to the market in 1985.

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Actually, it's an interesting question because the UK was a member of the EU from the 1st January 1973 until the 31st January 2020. However, Article 51 states "Member States shall not impede the making available on the market of products covered by Directive 2001/95/EC which are in conformity with that Directive and which were placed on the market before 13 December 2024." 

Directive 2001/95/EC was transposed into UK law as The General Product Safety Regulations 2005 (which are still in force). Those regulations came into force on 1st October 2005 so I think it's fair to say that any product "placed on the market" in the UK before that date could not have complied with a Directive that was yet to come into force. This would be the case with your Dire Straits album that was "placed on the market" prior to that date.

However, this still leaves items that were "placed on the market" in the UK between the 1st October 2005 and the 31st January 2020 that are not subject to "harmonised EU legislation" (i.e. CE marking). For example, if you had a copy of a 2006 UK-issued "The Eraser" album by Thom Yorke that would appear to be outside the scope of the GPSR. As per the Blue Guide:

"Online or distance selling may be a specific manner of making products available but it does not necessarily constitute the first making available of the product on the Union market (i.e. the placing on the market). The actual placing on the market of these products may differ for each individual product, depending on the specific distribution chain, for example:

—

The distance sale or online offer may refer to products that have already been placed on the Union market. This is the case where the EU manufacturer or an importer has already placed them on the Union market before they were offered for sale online or through other means of distance selling." 

I suspect the highlighted text means only a current EU (or Northern Irish) established manufacturer or importer can be deemed to have previously placed the item on the market.

Bizarrely, I was about to point out how eBay's own interpretation of Article 51 wildly differs from my own; something I did in one of the other threads. However, it has recently been changed to something similar to my own interpretation (expand the "What if I sell second hand items..." section to see it). I'll use the Wayback Machine to demonstrate the differences tomorrow as I'm getting tired and my head hurts...

[vinylscot]

Thanks; that makes things a little clearer, BUT

Vinyl records have never required CE marks (as you point out with your Thom Yorke example), no matter when they were manufactured.

Elsewhere on the eBay page you linked to, (expand the "Does the GPSR apply to collectables..." and you will see "The regulation excludes antiques, which, for purposes of this law, includes collectors’ items and works of art since they cannot meet the necessary safety requirements."

Vinyl records are undoubtedly collectors' items, so should be exempt? Yes?

[4_bathrooms]

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@vinylscot wrote:

Thanks; that makes things a little clearer, BUT

Vinyl records have never required CE marks (as you point out with your Thom Yorke example), no matter when they were manufactured.

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Apologies; that reference was to prevent some other posters jumping in thinking they had spotted a get-out clause. The General Product Safety Regulation doesn't deal with existing harmonised EU product safety legislation however anything that requires a CE mark (for example) will require a valid Declaration of Conformity for the current EN standard(s) required of that product. So, a used toy that was manufactured in the 1980s will require a valid Declaration of Conformity for the current EN71 standard to be uploaded.

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@vinylscot wrote:

Elsewhere on the eBay page you linked to, (expand the "Does the GPSR apply to collectables..." and you will see "The regulation excludes antiques, which, for purposes of this law, includes collectors’ items and works of art since they cannot meet the necessary safety requirements."

Vinyl records are undoubtedly collectors' items, so should be exempt? Yes?

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As with everything in the GPSR there are definitions involved. The GPSRs state:

"Antiques, such as works of art or collectors’ items are specific categories of products which cannot be expected to meet the safety requirements laid down by this Regulation, and should therefore be excluded from its scope. However, in order to prevent other products from being mistakenly considered as belonging to those categories, it is necessary to take into account that works of art are products created solely for artistic purposes, that collectors’ items are of sufficient rarity and historical or scientific interest to justify their collection and preservation, and that antiques, if they are not already works of art or collectors’ items or both, are of an extraordinary age. When assessing whether a product is an antique, such as a work of art or a collector’s item, Annex IX to Council Directive 2006/112/EC (13) could be taken into account." 

Here's a link to the aforementioned Annex IX. Collector's items are defined as:

"Collectors' items

(1) Postage or revenue stamps, postmarks, first-day covers, pre-stamped stationery and the like, used, or if unused not current and not intended to be current (CN code 9704 00 00);

(2) collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical, mineralogical, anatomical, historical, archaeological, palaeontological, ethnographic or numismatic interest (CN code 9705 00 00)."

I don't believe a mass produced record meets the criteria unless it has become of "sufficient rarity and historical or scientific interest to justify [it's] collection or preservation."

[4_bathrooms]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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Bizarrely, I was about to point out how eBay's own interpretation of Article 51 wildly differs from my own; something I did in one of the other threads. However, it has recently been changed to something similar to my own interpretation (expand the "What if I sell second hand items..." section to see it). I'll use the Wayback Machine to demonstrate the differences tomorrow as I'm getting tired and my head hurts...

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Here is a screenshot of what that section was displaying on 7th October (the last capture):

Up until some point yesterday (I think) that section had been updated to state something about eBay's interpretation of Article 51 being the GPSR did not apply to used goods (other than harmonised product safety legislation). It seems the Wayback Machine didn't manage to take a capture of that update but I'm sure plenty of posters will remember the gist of it. That has again been changed to what it now states; that change was made very recently. 

[vinylscot]

Coincidentally, eBay "business sellers" called me about half an hour ago, just for a general chat about my account. The caller was quite upfront about it. He has heard of GPSR, but didn't really know anything about it.

He passed me over to another rep, this time in the listings department. While he sounded pretty confident initially, it soon became apparent that he knew little more than the first guy, and certainly less than I know. He's going to read this thread to see if he can get some guidance, but, at the moment it seemed that he just had a couple of crib sheets, and little actual knowledge of the subject.

I believe, (and this isn't really meant as a criticism of eBay) that eBay doesn't really have much idea of what is going to happen. They are operating a "suck it and see" approach, and will deal with difficulties as and when they arise. Maybe some of the changes to eBay's info/help pages have come about as inaccuracies have been pointed out to them.

I'm grateful to @4_bathrooms  for doing his best to penetrate the impenetrable, but I think we are just going to have to wait and see how eBay deals with this as it unfolds.

[4_bathrooms]

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@vinylscot wrote:

I believe, (and this isn't really meant as a criticism of eBay) that eBay doesn't really have much idea of what is going to happen. They are operating a "suck it and see" approach, and will deal with difficulties as and when they arise. Maybe some of the changes to eBay's info/help pages have come about as inaccuracies have been pointed out to them.

eBay are more than big enough to have a compliance department to deal with things like this and should really have been far more prepared than they were/are. The GPSR actually came into force on 12th June 2023 but there was a transitional period until enforcement that was put in place so that online marketplaces could make the necessary changes required and inform their sellers of them. As per the GPSR:

"In order to allow economic operators and providers of online marketplaces sufficient time to adapt to the requirements of this Regulation, including information requirements, it is necessary to provide for a sufficient transitional period after the date of entry into force of this Regulation during which products covered by Directive 2001/95/EC which are in conformity with that Directive may still be placed on the market."

[vinylscot]

You are correct, of course, but when has eBay ever prepared properly for a major change.

This guy was utterly lost, and he was the guy supposed to be "in the know". If someone in eBay knows what is going on, they certainly aren't telling their front-line staff, let alone their customers.

As an aside - I had to search my own activity to find this thread - it is not appearing if I scroll through topics on seller central. Is anyone else having this problem?

[555njp]

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@vinylscot wrote:

As an aside - I had to search my own activity to find this thread - it is not appearing if I scroll through topics on seller central. Is anyone else having this problem?

 No, it just popped up at the top of seller central, telling me you was the latest to reply.

[vinylscot]

Thanks for the response. I did get confirmation from another poster that it had "disappeared", but, obviously it's re-appeared now.

[ile136yz]

GPSR is not applicable for UK Business or Private Accounts Selling only in the UK, but it is to Northern Ireland.

I've noticed that some of the UK Business Accounts selling to the EU & Northern Ireland have now included the GPSR information on their eBay adverts.