Ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb

[rsbrickshop]

I'm a private seller. Items I sell are between £2.90 - £10. Is It just me or will ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb make it near impossible to sell competitively. A few months ago Ebay got rid of Sellers' fees for private sellers, which was a welcome move. But this new change and getting rid of multi-buy discount for private sellers will make it worse than it was with the original fees.

[ett1954]

"I quote from Ebay - "Buyer Protection is free for buyers purchasing from
business sellers on eBay. This protection is included in the item price......."

This is b.s. for the ignorant from eBay; or propaganda if you want to be polite.  A buyer is protected by law through the Consumer Rights Act when purchasing from a business seller.  It has always been so - nothing has changed there with the introduction of the BPF.

eBay's MBG gave buyers from private sellers guarantees above what was required by law and the costs associated with this were dealt with by eBay through fees.  Since private sellers now longer pay fees eBay have obviously decided someone has to pay for this ; hence the BPF.

To summarise: buyers have always had protection when purchasing from a business seller.  Nothing has changed, and that is why they cannot charge a buyer a BPF pays for a protection they already have by law.

[sid.123]

The bpf is an insurance policy of sorts that although paid to ebay itself. They will never pay out for anything. If a private seller fails to send goods or sends faulty goods. I'm not sure what else this may cover. The bpffrom ebay will never pay out for anything. Any losses or refunds due to faulty or not delivered goods will always be paid by the seller. Just like its always been.

If anyone know what ebay themselves would payout for for this fee I'd be interested in knowing.

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[ett1954]

"If anyone know what ebay themselves would payout for for this fee I'd be interested in knowing." - Once Simple Delivery is imposed on private sellers then eBay will be fully responsible for problems related to the delivery - late delivery, lost items, damage etc.  The contract for postage will be between eBay and the courier they purchased the service from.  Any costs related to the above will be eBay's responsibility to settle.

"If a private seller fails to send goods or sends faulty goods. I'm not sure what else this may cover."  - I am sure that will still be the responsibility of the seller; you cannot expect eBay to be compensate the buyer for the failure of the seller.

[papso22]

I would add that it is possible the fee is meant to cover the courtesy refunds and payment disputes where ebay ends up refunding and not the seller.

There are cases where ebay used to be 'out of pocket' (if you ignore all the other fees they charge!)

[ett1954]

"I would add that it is possible the fee is meant to cover the courtesy refunds and payment disputes" - I am sure it will as previously they would have been covered by general fees.  Precisely why you can't expect it to continue as it was when private sellers now pay no fees, otherwise the cost burden would fall on business sellers for a service they already provide.

[andha-21]

What do you think will happen if eBay select Evri for the majority of deliveries?

Evri have a near neverending list of things they do not cover.

[yorkscollectables]

The issue here is the introduction of this absurd and costly eBay Buyer Protection Fee  and the NEGATIVE impact  it has had on EVERBODY'S sales !!

This has absolutely nothing to do with who is a Private Seller or who is a Business Seller. Opinions about who  should or shouldn't be a Business Seller is irrelevant,

The eBay Buyer Protection Fee  has pushed up prices for Buyers, they aren't happy.

THIS IS A FACT

[theelench]

I quote from your reply to my previous question.

"I would say that a business that buys stuff for the business using an ebay private account is guilty of misrepresenting themselves as a private individual, which is against the law"

And

".... and ebay tells sellers they need a business account if buying for a business"

The possible advantages of a business buying on a private account over one buying on a business account are endless.  My earlier example of the dis-honest vinyl seller persuading a private seller to reduce the price of a rare record because they said they wanted it for their private collection, then flipping it to maximise their profit, shows how it can be used to re-stock cheaper than the business buying under its business name and how they can use the tactic to dupe private seller.

Not being a business or dishonest I'm sure there are other advantages not so obvious to me, but that are to the dishonest business.  Why else would they do such a thing if there were no advantages?

But my main point is IMO the practice is widespread, but never discussed or admitted to.  Which I think strange when the argument so often employed when a "private" seller is pointed-out is that "It's against ebay's rules" and "The law is the law" and ALL sellers should abide by both.

There's definitely double standards in operation by the finger pointers when it comes to "private" sellers putting properly registered businesses at a dis-advantage and when business sellers are using the same tactics to disadvantage private sellers. 

[1956glyn]

You says everybodys sales.......not on mine it isnt 🙂   I am happy with what and the amount i am selling.

[buffster1963]

It is relevant because these business sellers pretending to be private sellers would not have the buyer fees added if they were properly registered. 

[papso22]

But you still haven't identified any unavoidable actual harm to any seller when a business buyer uses a private account to buy with.

In your example the seller can just say no.

On the other hand, the business sellers masquerading as private ones directly harm proper busineses that they are in competition with as well as costing buyers unnecessary fees.

I don't think there is any comparison.

If a seller of any type was to come to the boards with an issue directly caused by selling to a business using a private account to buy, and that issue was not covered by the MBG, I would fully support the seller, as long as they were not also doing something wrong.  

[theelench]

So "The law is the law and should be obeyed by all" but only sometimes.

The same applies to ebay policies?  Both can be dis-regarded if no "unavoidable actual harm" can be identified?

[kath3735_wxmjn]

not sure i completely understand this but what is the problem with a business seller buying something from a private seller on any account?   If i put something up for sale i could not care who buys it or what they do with it as long as i get what i want for it.  Same with car boots, you sell something and then see it on someone elses stall for a few pounds extra, does not bother me, i was just happy to make the sale.  I have probably missed something important in all these posts but i am confused.

[lucy_farmer]

'What do you think will happen if eBay select Evri for the majority of deliveries?

Evri have a near neverending list of things they do not cover.'

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, this is a question that's been hanging around for ages; The 'Exclusion List' problem..

(Mind you, it's not just Evri. RM also have a fairly exhaustive list of 'un-insurables'.)

I think there can really only be 3 possible answers:

1. a very long list of categories that can't be posted using Simple Delivery.

2. Ebay have bargained for a much much better deal with delivery companies on insurance than that available to us proles.

3. When things get damaged in the post, ebay will wriggle off the hook by claiming them to be 'improperly packed' ...as the actual packaging is the only thing left to the seller's responsibility.

I hope it's answer 1.  It may be 2.   But I've a nasty feeling it'll be 3.

[theelench]

I'm moaning about the double standards involved.

A business selling on private account is regularly told that it's wrong 100% of the time, no matter if they claim to be giving buyers their statutory rights, no matter if they make a profit or not, no matter if they donate all their sales proceeds to a charity.  No exceptions, a business is a business and should always be operating on a business account.

I asked if that included when a business was buying on a private account, concealing the fact that they were a business from a seller, particularly a private seller.

In @papso22 's opinion, they are misrepresenting themselves in both cases and doing so is illegal in both.

My point is that if the law should apply to all, that includes re-selling businesses on ebay that IMO routinely ignore the law and ebay rules when it suits them.

[ett1954]

"My point is that if the law should apply to all, that includes re-selling businesses on ebay that IMO routinely ignore the law and ebay rules when it suits them." - The law does apply to all.  If you come across this report the offender to eBay.

Unfortunately you will find no action will be taken; but then maybe you will understand how business sellers feel about reporting private sellers selling illegally.

The fact is these people selling illegally on a private account; especially those  who opened a private account when no fees for private sellers was introduced, are one of the reasons you now have the Buyer Protection Fee.

The reason why the BPF has not been introduced in Germany who also have no fees for private sellers, as a poster on one of the related threads mentioned, is because the law in that country is rigorously enforced by the local government agencies there and some accountability also rests with the respective platforms.

[vinylscot]

"The reason why the BPF has not been introduced in Germany who also have no fees for private sellers, as a poster on one of the related threads mentioned, is because the law in that country is rigorously enforced by the local government agencies there and some accountability also rests with the respective platforms."

That there is the smoking gun which provides evidence that the BPF is, as all rational posters have by now realised, a consequence of the business/private seller issue.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will get through to the childish individual who is currently polluting multiple threads with a bald, and totally erroneous claim that it has nothing to do with business/private.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

I may be being a bit thick here but what does it matter to a private seller if a business seller buys from them on a business or private account?  The private seller is not going to suffer in any way, they are in the same position whoever buys from them.  The problem is with the pseudo private sellers who are depriving the buyer of the rights they would have had if they had been registered as a business.   Of course i may be in the wrong on this and i have probably simplified it too much.

[papso22]

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@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

not sure i completely understand this but what is the problem with a business seller buying something from a private seller on any account?   If i put something up for sale i could not care who buys it or what they do with it as long as i get what i want for it.  Same with car boots, you sell something and then see it on someone elses stall for a few pounds extra, does not bother me, i was just happy to make the sale.  I have probably missed something important in all these posts but i am confused.

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I don't think there is a problem on ebay, which is what we are concerned about here. 

They are breaking the law about misrepresenting themselves as consumers, when they are not, and outside of ebay may try to get rights they are not entitled to.  But seeing as how ebay allows everyone to use the MBG, on ebay it makes no difference. 

It's very hard to spot a business buying on a private account, unlike  businesses selling on a private account.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

thanks for that, still not sure why it is wrong but as i am not a business and am not legalise savvy i will just forget about it!  Personally i do not care who buys from me as long as they pay the money!