An interesting insight into HMRC expanding investigations

[dch2112011]

The taxman's ultimate weapon is supercomputer HMRC Connect. It holds 55 billion items of data on taxpayers, and that's growing all the time. It now incorporates artificial intelligence (AI) technology in its systems.

The robots are coming for your tax return.

HMRC Connect has all of your tax returns and can compare your previous submissions against your latest one, to see if anything looks amiss.

It also processes data from every other government agency, including the DVLA, Department for Work and Pensions, Land Registry, Border Agency, Companies House, electoral roll and council tax records.

HMRC Connect grabs information from your bank and building society, debit and credit cards, credit reference agencies, crypto asset platforms and insurers.

It can track down your earnings data, including income from casual employers and company benefits.

It even holds child benefit and maintenance payments data and will cross-reference the lot. And the taxman doesn't stop there.

HMRC Connect is all over social media too.

HMRC can access public posts on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram, although only as part of an ongoing investigation. It can also source your web browsing and email records.

So if you show off your fancy new car on Facebook, or post glitzy pictures of your luxury trip to the Caribbean, this may raise questions if your reported income is modest.

If you buy and sell goods online for more than £1,000 a year, report that, too. In January, HMRC secured new powers to check all your trading activity on platforms such as eBay, Gumtree, Etsy and Vinty.

HMRC even has access to property sites such as Airbnb, to see if you're renting out rooms. It keeps a beady eye on buy-to-let landlords, too.

If you're thinking of slipping money offshore think again, as tax collectors share data globally under the common reporting standard.

Criminal tax investigations bring in nearly £1billion in a year. The cost pays for itself around 30 times over.

It reckons it can bring in another £5.5billion.

While 81% of evasion is by small businesses, notably takeaways and sweet shops, it's coming after personal taxpayers too.

We now pay more tax than ever but resist the temptation to break the law. You're free to moan about taxes as much as you like but if you want to avoid them, do it legally. Otherwise HMRC could come after you.

[*vyolla*]

I'm very familiar with Connect, it's been around for years.

[dch2112011]

It was conceived in 2010  vastly expanded in 2017 and again in 2021 - recent claims by HMRC are that it has further been expanded  - the latest published by HMRC was protect connect to bring VAT and self assesment into the system in 2021

The recent budget confirmed the 1.4 billion to employ 5000 additional investigators 

If you are aware then you should be able to confirm the information rather than guess that it is innacurate  and add to it 

[lighting_signs_and_vintage]

"recent claims by HMRC are that it has further been expanded"

Yeah one of the terminals in Ruislip had the memory upgraded from 8MB

[dch2112011]

That might be nearer the truth than you think !

(based on their ridiculously underpowered system for uploading documents )

[millcottage]

If the AI is as good as the one eBay use to write descriptions, then I don’t think people have much to worry about lol

People see the word AI and expect the things they have seen on Star Trek.

Personally I have nothing to hide from HMRC and they are welcome to all my data……well provided it’s secure that is.

When I have owed HMRC money I have paid it even when they have not requested payment and it has slipped through their net.

Having lived in Switzerland for a few years (10 years ago for 4 years), they have a different attitude to taxing people. Very relaxed in collection of money and you can claim allowances for loads of things even keeping a goat 🙂

[theelench · Accepted solution]

It all sounds quite depressing to me that our MPs voted for so much snooping on everybody with the usual excuse of anti-money laundering/proceeds of crime/tax evasion.  But then they didn't really, did they.   

It was initiated by the OECD an international body made up of 32(?) countries and probably controlling most of the world economy.  All done behind closed doors and no-one there to say "No".

Waved through by one party, I don't remember our Loyal Opposition at Westminster making so much as a squeak of opposition to to any of it.  Or the subject of such a vast increase in govt. snooping being widely discussed before our recent election, or at any other time.  Perhaps the A.I that runs my newsfeed decided that I needn't be bothered by such trivia.  So much for Democracy.

But the jig-saw is being fitted together.  We're all being pushed into doing everything on-line and better still, into doing it on our mobile devices so that we can be tracked 24/7 with everything we say, where we say it and to whom.  What we earn, spend and how/when/where we do both all on record.

Make no mistake, this isn't just about catching benefit fraud or a few people on ebay selling charity-shop items without paying a few £s in tax.  It's about CONTROL.

Perhaps those cheering at the moment won't be quite so loud in their applause when the (A.I controlled) taxi won't stop, because they haven't done their 5000 steps today.

Or A.I controlled ebay wrecks their business because they were caught messaging about protesting against a govt. project near them.

This is the thin end of the wedge and is really about control, of your money and through it, your lives.

[lighting_signs_and_vintage]

I think you're on the wrong forum mate

[theelench]

You're probably right but I thought someone should point out that every silver lining has a cloud.  The less money people have, the less they spend.

[lucy_farmer]

Yeah... I know it sounds a bit paranoid, but I'm sort of with you on this😞

My personal horror is the distinct possibilty of a *cashless* computerised society.

Whenever I mention cash/cashless, a lot of people say 'Yeah but, nothing to hide= nothing to fear'! And yep, in this country, with this govt that's probably true.

But govts change. So do rules.

Look at Hong Kong. It used to be 2nd on the global 'freedom list' (basically what you could/couldn't do without getting arrested) The good ol' USA, 'Land of The Free' was about number 17 on that list.

Now poor old H.K. is pretty much squashed.

But even if the rules don't change that much, it doesn't have to be 'your fault'.... i.e...

Have you ever had a mistake made in your details- your name/address/d.o.b./ etc within an important website?  All information is put onto a computer system *for the first time* by a human. It then often gets disseminated through 100s maybe 1000s of other systems.

(when I was a heedless 22 yr old I used to work in data input. A low-wage, low-skilled job. Nobody really cared about the work, we just cared about getting to the weekend and having a laugh. Un-noticed mistakes must have happened all the time. I don't suppose low-waged 22yr olds are much different these days- possibly even worse as we didn't have 'phones back then)

And have you ever tried to change wrong information held about you on a computer?  Banging your head on the' Computer Says No' wall ....? oh jeeze....😩.

(anybody seen the film 'Brazil'?  think Buttle/Tuttle on a more computerised footing!)

So, lets imagine a mistake has made you look a lot like somebody on the government-of-the-day's *bleep*-list.

You are now inextricably mixed up with a terrorist or an anachist or an activist or any other 'ist the govt don't want.

In a cashless society the govt can 'switch you off', until you hand yourself in and try to convice them that you are right and their computer is wrong........... best of luck with that.

Yep it's a gloomy and slightly paranoid view, but it's a perfectly possible technoligical future....

[nat11911]

Talking of cheques ...

I moved fairly recently and I haven't updated my driving licence address yet; tried to do it online, but can't as my passport's expired. So DVLA tells me I have to fill out form D1, send it to Swansea, and include a cheque for £17.00. A cheque! The last cheque I wrote must have been 10+ years ago and I don't have a cheque book any longer.

Went to Lloyds bank for a cheque (or cheque book) and the girl there said 'ooh, we don't do those any more'; she fiddled around, consulted and scratched her head, and eventually came back to me, smiled a little uncertainly, and said 'I've put in a ... er ... special order for you, it should be delivered in 3 days' (still waiting 7 days later though). 

I very rarely have cash to hand nowadays either, so yes, I reckon in another 10-20 years no-one will carry cash or write cheques; everything will be done with a card and/or phone. Thankfully I probably won't be around to witness that.

[millcottage]

We still have a couple of cheque books somewhere.

For solar panel FIT payments BG were sending cheques as payment until last year when I asked them to pay direct into bank account.

Royal Mail still send cheques as compensation - a SD deadline was missed a couple of months ago and they sent a cheque for £12.15.

Last cheque we wrote was payment for an home security system fix. The company let us down 4 times by not turning up. So I payed by by cheque to give them hassle in having to pay it in at bank 😆

[kath3735_wxmjn]

I had to laugh when you asked if anyone had tried getting a mistake corrected!  For some unknown reason my energy provider decided last year to change the supply address of my home (kept it on the correspondence bit) and i have still not had it resolved, they say there is a glitch and they have been unable to rectify it (they did it in the first place!) and it does not matter.  Considering they are trying to force me into getting a smart meter i think it does.  My neighbour might not be too impressed either!!

[the-online-oasis]

Went to Lloyds bank for a cheque (or cheque book) and the girl there said 'ooh, we don't do those any more'; she fiddled around, consulted and scratched her head, and eventually came back to me, smiled a little uncertainly, and said 'I've put in a ... er ... special order for you, it should be delivered in 3 days' (still waiting 7 days later though).

🤣🤣🤣🤣

hilarious ! .....

Yeah, yeah.....

Wonder sometimes if UK.Gov. sites were actually 'written' by proper IT programmers ......

[lighting_signs_and_vintage]

At least some banks let you photograph cheques to pay them in now.

[vintique*violet]

In a cashless society the govt can 'switch you off', until you hand yourself in and try to convice them that you are right and their computer is wrong........... best of luck with that.

Yep it's a gloomy and slightly paranoid view, but it's a perfectly possible technoligical future....

It is the way we are being " directed"  - This is what the" oligarchs"  want and have been planning for decades so they have ultimate control of everything we do...monitored, surveilled, choices removed etc etc by AI. and the " internet of things".... they have/are forming collaborations with Gov, elites  and Big Business in which this " system "   we serve them instead of them serving us.  We are basically becoming cattle. 

Everything has/is being created to divide us and make us think we cannot do anything, we can- even on this platform. 

We are living in an upside down world, an absolute shockingly corrupt system which is now slowly being revealed on a wider scale, in many situations globally. 

Those that have eyes to see - see! 

 Unification is the answer - the people coming together, losing their fear  and saying NO! 

Edit - spelling.

[streapalba]

Death and taxes.

Pay up and stop worrying.

Simples.

[fotherbale]

---

@lucy_farmer wrote:

'crypto asset platforms'

No, I don't think so either....  I'm fairly certain the whole point of the crypto thing is that it's un-tracable. 

---

The crypto fanboys wouldn like you to think so, but the reality is that crypto is traceable.  More involved to do so, but there have been several cases where law enforcement agencies around the world have successfully tracked crypto criminals.

[britainsblitzvintage]

I agree about control. I have stopped trading on ebay due to snooping. It used to be my main income. Once a cashless uk is established we will be slaves to the government.

[vintique*violet]

We can stop cashless by using more cash and saying NO... and stop selling and buying online... I believe all this push from eBay is preparing for  CBDC'S ... and for the " Stakeholder Capitalism" ... Slavery was abolished and yet it has taken on a new form... if only people could truly see what is happening. 

Remember we are not cattle or a herd, consumers nor " useless eaters"- we are creative human beings and have more power than we realise. 

Happy New Year to you.