Cyclists In London

[fishpieface]

We are always hearing of campaigns to make cycling in London safer, and quite rightly so - make it

as safe as possible.  However, that requires some input from the cyclists themselves as well as they

share the roads with other vehicles.  More often than not the irresponsible behaviour of vehicle drivers

is highlighted during these campaigns and spoken about on tv etc.  They often go on about how they

want more respect from other road users, sometimes justifiably, we all want that, after all when everyone

is behaving as they should on the roads, everyone is safe.

The other evening I was driving a coach with people going to theatre and my expeiriences with cyclists

in the city was, I'm sorry to say, very negative.  I had cyclists trying to squeeze up the inside of the coach,

jumping red lights and, worst of all, hanging onto my rear lights and getting pulled along.  Dreadfully dangerous at the best of times, but coaches are big things and if one turns left with a cyclist hanging on the back, that cyclist is probably going to be wondering why he's (they're usually blokes) had a close encounter with the rear end of a coach, or not be wondering anything because he'll be crushed underneath it.

When I went to park along the Embankment, I got into a bay at the front and was going to back up to get close to the kerb.  I could see traffic and cyclists and was waiting until they'd passed.  The abuse I got

from a couple of cyclists was unbelievable, one tried to sneak up the inside in a gap that was scarecely a foot wide, banging on the coach all the way alongside it and scratching it with his handlebars.  Another was hanging on my back light. 

That was it, enough is enough.  I had a word with them, politely but firmly.  I said to them both if they want the respect from other road users that we all want and deserve, then do not do that.  I said how come they are always complaining at others' behaviour on the roads and yet they appear to think they are exempt from

the law and can do what they like?  Most of them completely ignore traffic lights.  Some of them no doubt wonder why they get knocked off.

Whilst parked, I saw two idiots on bikes doing wheelies and acrobatics along the Embankment, in the dark - no helmets, no lights, no high-visibility clothing - right in front of a policeman!

On the way home another idiot cyclist riding on an unlit road, pitch dark, no lights, black clothes, no helmet. 

There are some good, law-abiding cyclists amongst them, people that wear good visibility clothing, a helmet and cycle according to the rules of the roads.

We all know there are some arrogant drivers out there, yes, but there are good ones too and most are not out to get cyclists.  It works both ways.  Us coach drivers aren't out to get cyclists, or anyone else, either

but neither to we want cyclists damaging our coaches with handlbars, hanging on our rear lights and doing daredevil acts all around us and not wearing suitable clothing and a helmet, so when they are being stupid, we can at least see them quicker.

Perhaps these campaigns should interview people from both sides and take a bit of film around London

one evening - that would paint a truer picture.

OK, rant over, thanks for listening!

[carolyorkie2010]

I agree that drivers should also have a go at cycling to see what it is like to be a cyclist on today's roads. And to encounter the numerous potholes that cyclists have to avoid. My late Father once said that you have to allow as much room when overtaking a cyclist as you would a car. Neighbour made the same comment, and said you have to allow for "Wobble." I'm sure we have all had "Mr Wobble." 🙂

[guardpig]

OK cyclists, there am I carefully following a cyclist down a hill, not a problem.  No safe place to overtake, I can wait. Car behind beeping 'cos he can't see the cyclist and thinks I'm doing 20mph 'cos i'm old, grey and female(but he can't see that either LOL). At the junction the lights go red.  I've missed the green light following the cyclist who just swerves onto the pavement and takes no notice of the red light.  Hmm I am held up by a cyclist who then breaks the law, now how do you think that makes me feel?

Then there's the two(ladies this time) using zebra crossings. - and that isn't legal either

Then there was the wobbler gallantly plodding up one of our few hills, probably wobbling because my engine was growling somewhat and it must have been disconcerting.  Felt like rolling window down and offering a tow.  I'd have been walking long before I got where she had.  Had to admire the determination.

And I won't even go suicide alley - secondary school escape time it was - they were born with eyes in their heads but not enough sense to use them!.

Or the lovely driver slowing and indicating left then changing his mind, accelerating towards me and beeping his horn because i'd had the cheek to walk across the road in front of him, except I hadn't.

Also had at least 3 car doors opened in front of me - do they have a death wish.  I don't ride a bike, I drive  a big car and I know who'll come off worst.

Great day to be on the roads today. 

[guardpig]

I agree that drivers should also have a go at cycling to see what it is like to be a cyclist on today's roads. And to encounter the numerous potholes that cyclists have to avoid. My late Father once said that you have to allow as much room when overtaking a cyclist as you would a car. Neighbour made the same comment, and said you have to allow for "Wobble." I'm sure we have all had "Mr Wobble." 🙂

No way. Cycling on the roads isn't safe. I do not have a deathwish.

[bankhaunter]

Some of the planners should be made to use their cycle routes as well.

This is exactly the situation which is really dangerous, parked cars need to be passed leaving sufficient space in case a door is suddenly opened.

A woman in the US. was killed using a lane like this one when a driver opened their door.

I suppose at least if sharing a path with pedestrians might be a bit easier than trying to use a lane which is also marked out for car parking as some are.

[fishpieface]

Gosh, some very interesting comments here.

As I said in my post, I think campaigners should put both sides across, of course there are idiots on both sides, same as there are considerate, careful drivers and riders.

I am not a driver who doesn't care and doesn't respect other road users, I keep to the law and I am courteous - if I wasn't I wouldn't have my job for long.  I've crawled along in a coach behind a cyclist for what seems like miles because I haven't considered that there is enough room to pass them safely.  Other drivers behind my coach and the cyclist have been of a different opinion - that they have plenty of room on a single carriageway road with traffic coming the other way at over 50mph, to pass a dawdling coach, then they see the cyclist when they have to cut in front of me to get into the right side of the road in time.

What I'm saying is courtesy and abiding with the law is required from ALL road users and that does include cyclists.  There is no excuse whatsoever for cyclists to ignore red traffic lights - they ride on the road, cycle lane or not, red lights apply to them.  There is no excuse whatsoever to creep up teeny little gaps on the insides of large vehicles, if the gap isn't wide enough and isn't a cycle lane, then wait behind the large vehicle until the traffic moves.  Even if there is a cycle lane, it is risky going up the inside of a large vehicle because you cannot be seen!  Take a bus for instance (and I agree that cycle lanes running through bus stops are dangerous), cyclist going along, bus pulls into bus stop, neither doing anything wrong.  However, is it worth getting squashed by a bus, which is doing nothing wrong, just to say, "Oh well, it's alright, I'm on a cycle lane"?  No, the design is awful and potentially hazardous but any cyclist with common sense will wait.  The emphasis is on the word sharing, if any part of road (or indeed walkway) is shared with anything else, BOTH parties have to take that into account which does not mean cyclists do what they like and drivers/pedestrians get slated for the fact they fall off.   There is no excuse whatsoever for cyclists hanging onto large vehicles to get pulled along, those who do this cannot in any way blame the driver of the vehicle if they get knocked off or dragged underneath.  A colleague of mine has a son who is a policeman in East London.  A few years back he had to crawl under a coach to see if the idiot cyclist who had been hanging on the back was still alive.  Not the nicest of things to fall within one's job description, yet one that didn't have to happen if that cyclist hadn't been so stupid.

I am sick of these endless campaigns about making safer cycling in London, when often the cyclists themselves are the only people who can make it safer by cycling properly and with a proper helmet etc.

Since we've had the "borisycles" in London, the ones that you hire, anyone can hire them, even those who've never ridden a bike.  They have no helmet (which should be compulsory), no insurance and nothing to check they can actually ride a bike!

I am not "having a go" at all cyclists, I'm having a go at the ones with no respect for others,

no comprehension of the law or the fact that it applies to them.  Whilst I respect all who share our roads legally, there are ever increasing numbers who don't.

[bankhaunter]

Even if there is a cycle lane, it is risky going up the inside of a large vehicle because you cannot be seen!

So let me get this straight.

Even if there is a cycle lane which will enable a cyclist to move up a line of traffic, a cyclist should not pass large vehicles because the driver of such a vehicle might want to cross on to it without bothering to check if a cyclist was using it first.

If they cannot see, they shouldn't make the manoeuvre.

I am sick of these endless campaigns about making safer cycling in London, when often the cyclists themselves are the only people who can make it safer by cycling properly and with a proper helmet etc.

It is a pity that so many motor vehicle users do not give consideration to cyclists even if they are cycling properly, for example when the cyclist is using the prime position for a right turn, it is not unusual to be treated to the blast of a horn because a car driver behind them sees them as being 'in their way'.

Plus I have never yet seen or heard of a situation where wearing a helmet has ever prevented an accident.

[artisanone11]

London’s great practise for driving CV’s in crowded cities the world over.  It’s a free training ground. 🙂

As what seems like half the world arrives to drive, ride and walk here at any given time, it will always have fluctuating standards and new challenges to adapt to.

London PSV and HGV drivers assume if you leave a gap at the rear that a cycle might be able to get down, then one will try, even if it peter’s out to six inches. To expect different is to set yourself up for an accident one day, because no rules and regulations will change human nature.

The clingers have also always been there, they do it to motorbikes too. I’t’s their (unwise) choice to try and use faster vehicles momentum to get their speed up, most who do it are good at it, but if they blow it, tough.

I find the Boris bikes are a great highlighted reminder that the roads belong to all, and we share the tarmac with every kind of human of every kind of competence, using every kind of transport, and some are very frail indeed.  It isn’t ‘a cyclist’, it’s someone’s mum, son, auntie, dad, tourist, child, potentially a two wheeled L plate, and a fellow human with as much right to the use of the road and fallibility as anyone.

Fundamentally the bigger, heavier, and harder to stop, the vehicle you drive, the more responsibility you have to the most fragile, the most stupid, and the most suicidal, regardless of their attitudes, likeability, or capabilities, and thus it ever was.  

It’s an old school view, but personally I think it’s how it should be.

If nothing else, idiots of all forms keep you sharp eyed, quick witted, and on your toes as a commercial driver, and act as a constant fitness and aggression test, free of charge. 🙂

The real problem is the competitive nature of all forms of road user, and the divisions into them and us, entitled and not entitled, and deserving and undeserving, going on at all levels. We need to pull back from it.

[artisanone11]

Phizz, we do have cycle proficiency in schools here. They take the children out in long wobbly packs on the roads and teach them. 

Many female cyclists are less assertive riders, (unwise in London) and every September we have an influx of previously quiet town new uni students, and new yr 7 let riders joining the throng.

A new hazard for commercial drivers at traffic lights shared with supercycle highways, is the  female cyclist three quarters of the way down your vehicle, on the superhighway on the outside of the pack, waiting for the lights to change. They change and she suddenly gets knocked sideways towards your rear wheels, by her high viz lycra clad 'pro' supercyclist male counterparts surging forward.

 We are about to trial Dutch cycle roundabouts here, I suspect the sliproad re-joining them with all traffic will throw up a similar problem, but it’s not a problem in Holland.

[fishpieface]

Goodness me!  Wearing a helmet won't necessarily prevent an accident but it can, and has,  certainly prevent life threatening head injury if there is an accident.

Bankhaunter, most of us DO give consideration to cyclists.  I completety agree that, on a bus route, a completely separate cycle lane, ie., not on the road, is the answer and to put cycle lanes with bus stops along them is very bad planning and potential for an accident.  So perhaps, given the fact that sometimes that is where the cycle lane is and that fact, which neither the bus driver or cyclist can do anything about, what would you do?  Would you just steam up the inside when a bus has pulled in, or would you wait until it pulls away again?  Bearing in mind that the piece of road is shared and neither cyclist or bus is doing any wrong by using it, obviously with the driver taking great care knowing he/she is sharing his bus stop with a cycle lane, and the cyclist taking care that a bus isn't there?  It is clearly not a good place to put a cycle lane from either point of view, but what would you do?  I wasn't suggesting that nobody bothered to look, it's not about getting it straight, it's about both sharers of a shared place giving consideration to the fact that something or someone might be about, not assuming that because one is bigger they are right.

In the part of London I was speaking about, there are no cycle lanes where the coach parking bays are.  Any cyclist who tries to squeeze themselves along the nearside of a coach trying to park is being rather stupid, especially if they don't fit and scratch along the whole length of the coach with their handlebar and bang on the side of it.  Any vehicle doing the same would be equally stupid and similarly breaking the law.  I've never suggested that I wouldn't bother to keep my eyes everywhere possible before doing anything and Arti is absolutely right, we are constantly reminded in our knowledge that, out of everybody who uses our roads, loads aren't doing so properly, to be ever vigilant.

However, when my colleague's son and the medical team had to extract that cyclist from underneath a coach in East London, that cyclist was entirely at fault.  If this thread prevents that happening to one more person, then it isn't in vain.  As Arti says, these people are all special to someone as are the non-blameworthy ones in the event of accidents, and they can be very badly affected by something they've been involved in but which they have no blame for.

The other day a friend of mine was rammed from behind by the driver of a BMW, on the phone, whilst stopped at traffic lights in her car.  He then got out, shouted swear words and abuse at her, got in his car and drove away!  Luckily she took a photo and the police arrested him.

I was driving a school coach with 60 children in last Friday.  Stupid woman, on phone, driving a massive 4x4 very badly came flying round a bend, the only place I could go was up the grass verge.  Luckily I was in a coach, which could take being swung onto a grass verge in a bit of a hurry.  Stupid 4x4 woman came to rest touching, but not hitting, my front corner.  A moment's non-concentration could have cost her a lot more than it did, not to mention all of us.  She was lucky in that it wasn't a car coming towards her as it wouldn't have got onto the verge, she was unlucky in that the police arrested her too, and quite rightly so - she had a little tiny baby in the 4x4.

It's not all about cyclists, it's about everybody.  If everybody's doing what they should be, none of this happens.  Lack of respect and consideraton towards others plays a huge part in it all.  It can often seem that it's all about "me, me, me, I'm alright, sod the others", though I know that isn't true of everyone.

[guardpig]

Highlights from today.  There I was cruising down a hill with a nice view of the river, a fresh breeze coming in the open window, foot on brake to ensure i stay under 30, at peace with the world when a transit sized truck accelerates noisily and overtakes me beeping furiously at me as he did so.  My crime? - doing 30 in a 30 mile limit.

Later on going carefully round sharp corner with a green feeder light when a cyclist wobbles straight across in front of me. Nearly had him.  Wonders(he was on a shared crossing) whether he realises now that the little red bike sign means he needs to wait until it goes green and not pop out from behind the shrubbery without looking left!. Pretty sure he never actually saw me and i damn near shaved his rear wheel (((((good brakes)))))

[bankhaunter]

to put cycle lanes with bus stops along them is very bad planning and potential for an accident.

It's not so much where a bus has to stop in a cycle lane that obviously cannot be avoided  but more like this sort of thing.

If you google 'silly cycle lanes' you will see some that would make you worry about the mentality of the planners, after you'd stopped laughing that is.

The problem with many lanes is that they are simply not taking seriously, not by planners for whom it seems to be a paper exercise nor by other road users who are quite happy to park on them, many are far too narrow being not much more than handlebar width which especially important because drivers tend to drive right up to the white line where they exist.

Police did stop and issue fines to drivers who were using the demarcated lane to queue jump over Twickenham bridge but that was only after the borough commander was nearly knocked off his bike, they took no action before that even though there were many complaints.

Actually drivers in London and other such places should be quite pleased there are a lot of cyclists.

Think what it would be like if they all drove cars.

[leoleoleo123]

I think the bottom line is this...

There are far more cars and other motor vehicles on the road than ever before, and, there are far more cyclists...

end of.

[1311rose]

Where I live there are cycle lanes or routes on many of the main thoroughfares in the city.  That's great if the cyclists use them but there is a significant number who totally disregard them.  There is also a proportion of cyclists on the roads who seem to have no idea of the rules of the road.  For example yesterday on my way home from work I drove passed a cyclist (gave him plenty of room).  A short distance later I was in a queue of traffic waiting to go onto a roundabout (there is an alternative route for the cyclists).  Cyclist goes passed me on the inside , mounts the pavement and when that runs out goes passed the car in front of me on the outside, changes over to the inside and goes onto the busy roundabout passing 4 or 5 queuing cars.

Don't get me onto the ones that never indicate which way they are going:O

[bankhaunter]

 That's great if the cyclists use them but there is a significant number who totally disregard them.

As I have outlined , there are a number of reasons why cyclists don't use many of the 'cycle lanes' thoughtlessly provided, however I think you are right in saying there appears to be a proportion of cyclists who have no idea of the rules of the road or for that matter even elementary self preservation precautions, they seem to regard roads and pavements as being areas of tarmac they can ride anywhere on how they like, other users merely being obstructions to avoid in the easiest way possible.

There is a video on You Tube where a cyclist complains to a car driver for partly blocking the cycle lane then, having done that, proceeds to ride through a red light. 😞

[guardpig]

We have a gret road locally where they put a cycle lane in both sides last time they repainted the lines.  Great one might say but why?

Road only busy in rush hour, normal local road, plenty of time to pass the odd cyclist.  Luckily they are broken line lanes so cars can use them ...............

With two cycle lanes there is just room between the lanes for ONE car.  Pity it isn't a one way street. LOL

[bankhaunter]

 Great one might say but why?

I suspect because it was easy and cheap so the local council can now boast how they are making things better for the cyclist.

As you imply nothing has actually changed.

[guardpig]

Many years ago I can remember voicing my opposition to a proposed shared cycle/pedestrian footpath - no road just upgrading a popular local muddy pot hole footpath.  Council had decided it would(and did ) make a nice cycle route.  Unfortunately , back then, what was good enough for cyclists was good enough for motorcyclists(cut a couple of miles off the road route) - after all they have 2 wheels.  Several years, bollards, reduced parking and earthed up banks later ...................................................... it became a nice peaceful shared path.

[fishpieface]

Bankhaunter, those silly cycle lanes are unbelievable!  Totally unbelievable that it would go so far as them actually being painted there!

Yesterday where I was driving about in Essex, every cyclist I passed and saw was behaving themselves, cycling properly and being sensible. 

[merc1_clocks]

Bankhaunter, those silly cycle lanes are unbelievable!  Totally unbelievable that it would go so far as them actually being painted there!

Yesterday where I was driving about in Essex, every cyclist I passed and saw was behaving themselves, cycling properly and being sensible. 

They've been reading FHG, & are scared that fishie will give them a bollllllockin;-)

[fishpieface]

LOL Merc, it sounds like I'm always giving people bolllliiinngkinnngs, but I'm not really, honest!

When I do get assertive I surprise myself!