Cyclists In London

[fishpieface]

We are always hearing of campaigns to make cycling in London safer, and quite rightly so - make it

as safe as possible.  However, that requires some input from the cyclists themselves as well as they

share the roads with other vehicles.  More often than not the irresponsible behaviour of vehicle drivers

is highlighted during these campaigns and spoken about on tv etc.  They often go on about how they

want more respect from other road users, sometimes justifiably, we all want that, after all when everyone

is behaving as they should on the roads, everyone is safe.

The other evening I was driving a coach with people going to theatre and my expeiriences with cyclists

in the city was, I'm sorry to say, very negative.  I had cyclists trying to squeeze up the inside of the coach,

jumping red lights and, worst of all, hanging onto my rear lights and getting pulled along.  Dreadfully dangerous at the best of times, but coaches are big things and if one turns left with a cyclist hanging on the back, that cyclist is probably going to be wondering why he's (they're usually blokes) had a close encounter with the rear end of a coach, or not be wondering anything because he'll be crushed underneath it.

When I went to park along the Embankment, I got into a bay at the front and was going to back up to get close to the kerb.  I could see traffic and cyclists and was waiting until they'd passed.  The abuse I got

from a couple of cyclists was unbelievable, one tried to sneak up the inside in a gap that was scarecely a foot wide, banging on the coach all the way alongside it and scratching it with his handlebars.  Another was hanging on my back light. 

That was it, enough is enough.  I had a word with them, politely but firmly.  I said to them both if they want the respect from other road users that we all want and deserve, then do not do that.  I said how come they are always complaining at others' behaviour on the roads and yet they appear to think they are exempt from

the law and can do what they like?  Most of them completely ignore traffic lights.  Some of them no doubt wonder why they get knocked off.

Whilst parked, I saw two idiots on bikes doing wheelies and acrobatics along the Embankment, in the dark - no helmets, no lights, no high-visibility clothing - right in front of a policeman!

On the way home another idiot cyclist riding on an unlit road, pitch dark, no lights, black clothes, no helmet. 

There are some good, law-abiding cyclists amongst them, people that wear good visibility clothing, a helmet and cycle according to the rules of the roads.

We all know there are some arrogant drivers out there, yes, but there are good ones too and most are not out to get cyclists.  It works both ways.  Us coach drivers aren't out to get cyclists, or anyone else, either

but neither to we want cyclists damaging our coaches with handlbars, hanging on our rear lights and doing daredevil acts all around us and not wearing suitable clothing and a helmet, so when they are being stupid, we can at least see them quicker.

Perhaps these campaigns should interview people from both sides and take a bit of film around London

one evening - that would paint a truer picture.

OK, rant over, thanks for listening!

[soo.perb]

An interesting threads that demonstrates the diversity of opinion about cyclist v vehicle. I drive and have cycled, I have a husband who hasn't a good word to day about cyclists and who actively discourages me from cycling because he says it's dangerous. 

I can see both sides of the argument, mostly. I have seen cyclists do some hugely dangerous manoeuvres and it doesn't surprise me that they get killed and injured. I have read about the dangerous things and inconsiderate behaviour of motorists that also results in cyclists being killed and injured. I can't remember any incidents where a cyclist has caused the death or serious injury of a car driver, although there may be instances.

What is evident is that some cyclists are arrogant and wage war against car drivers by holding up traffic and deliberately trying to take possession of the road because they believe they have every right to be there. There are also drivers who show very little concern for cyclists and actively seek to frighten them in order to somehow demonstrate that they don't think they should be allowed on the roads.

The truth is that there are always sections of society who are set against each other and each side believes utterly that they are right, so it is with cyclists v drivers. No matter how many careful and courteous law abiding cyclists there are out there, it won't stop drivers ranting about them and vice versa.

For every decent cycle lane there may be, there are others that were created years ago and have never been maintained, full of loose gravel, potholes, litter, broken glass and dog poo. My husband rants about cyclists not using them yet when I try to point out that they aren't all usable he swears they are yet he doesn't cycle and has never used them. However he always treats cyclists with kid gloves and wide detours because he is a decent bloke who has no wish to cause them harm however much he rants.

Near my daughter there is a canal, it is also a designated cycle path, the majority of cyclists are selfish gits who believe they have the right of way, who seldom use a warning gadget of any kind and who display great annoyance if you don't get out of their way. My hearing isn't good and sometimes I just don't hear them approach yet it's my fault apparently. Add in the jogger s who seem to be of much the same mind but who at least can at least avoid you, the mothers and pushchairs who walk abreast and it's a nice walk spoiled. 

I don't honestly know how it can be solved because it involves changing people's mindset and opinions and that is always difficult, witness racists, religious factions, anti-smokers et al. you could legislate but we have so much legislation already and very little enforcement so I can't see that working. I think we all just have to keep ourselves safe and make sure that if anything unfortunate happens we are in the right because we behaved properly. I wish it were that simple!

[bankhaunter]

What is evident is that some cyclists are arrogant and wage war against car drivers by holding up traffic and deliberately trying to take possession of the road because they believe they have every right to be there.

Whilst it may depend on circumstances there are occasions when it is necessary to take possession of the road in order to be safe, it is known as 'taking prime position'.

An example would be when moving into a right lane before making a right turn, without moving completely into the lane, the cyclist will be in the dangerous position of having traffic passing closely on both sides, not good.

That is why at many traffic lights in London there are advance stopping zones reserved for bikes which enable bikes to take up the position, though many drivers ignore them despite it being an offence to stop in them when the lights are red.

A couple of stories about cyclists and lorries from the late 40s, lorries were not very fast in those days.

An army driving instructor was training a new driver in a lorry which was towing a gun. Ahead was a length of narrow road with buildings right up to the kerb and there was a cyclist just approaching it.

He told the trainee to give the cyclist plenty of room which he duly did pulling well over and then back again to avoid any oncoming traffic.

Unfortunately he had forgotten about the gun and when the instructor looked in the nearside mirror he saw the poor cyclist pedaling like mad to keep up with the lorry in front and the gun behind and no escape route.

A young lad was passed by a flat bed lorry rather slowly so he grabbed the back for a tow.

He was also carrying a box of eggs and to make things easier put the eggs on the lorry.

 The driver saw what he was doing and increased speed leaving the young lad with no choice but to let go and watch his eggs disappearing into the distance.

[artisanone11]

What is evident is that some cyclists are arrogant and wage war against car drivers by holding up traffic and deliberately trying to take possession of the road because they believe they have every right to be there.

I don't consider that arrogance or war, and think they are traffic (along with horses) and do have every right to be there, like it or not, but I’m not sure I held that view years ago.

Wherever I'm driving, most days it's in, or involving London, and that's probably why I see it that way. Cyclists often do have priority here and when they don't, not giving it to them is potentially fatal, especially when they've stuffed up

[leoleoleo123]

Remember when we were all young, and we took our 'cycling proficiency test'...

that seems to have gone by the wayside now.. because I am sure we were taught , never to cycle on the pavements!

[guardpig]

deliberately trying to take possession of the road because they believe they have every right to be there

Good.  I have no objection to a cyclist who believes he has as much right to be on the road as me, who rides safely(and often this means centre of the road), who boldly signal his intentions and obey the law.  Absolutely hate the ones who wobble around thinking they want to turn right, try the odd time to move out, flick the odd finger then when you pause to allow them to cross the lane they immediately turn left because they were only trying to get there hane off the handlebars long enough to scratch their noses.

Yes I remember riding my bike to school back in the days.  We used to be able to beat any car locally across any set of lights or junction from a standing start.  Then somebody invented a Mini!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bankhaunter]

Remember when we were all young, and we took our 'cycling proficiency test'...

that seems to have gone by the wayside now.. because I am sure we were taught , never to cycle on the pavements!

Nowadays you are more likely to see parents with children cycling on the pavement. 😞

[soo.perb]

So nobody saw the video of the cyclist who took umbrage against a bus who, looking at the CCTV, hadn't actually done anything wrong except in the cyclists eyes. i do think hitting him with the bus was a bit extreme though. London is a very different place to a town I agree, but the sheer number of cyclists and the way some of them seem to have no idea about traffic behaviour and believe other traffic should give them priority is nuts.

I've been recently and there are still cyclists who think it's ok to go through red lights because they are turning left and to start across a junction before the lights change. I understand why they do it but they are putting themselves at risk and breaking the law, where's the sense in that? I also think it's a rubbish idea to have two way cycle lanes, they are so narrow anyway it's a e recipe for disaster. 

I'm not pro or against cyclists per se but I do think that there are problems on both sides of the equation which can only be changed with both sides having a change of attitude and tbh that would be like expecting someone to change the way they vote just to keep the peace.