Ebay abuse of Buyers, and always remove feeback when asked.

[secularsid]

I bought goods from a seller at 9:30 at night and cancelled within 2 minutes due to an error.  They responded and refused the cancellation and claimed the goods were already dispatched. Their claim, which clearly was untrue, was shown to be untrue when the proof of postage showed they had not been dispatched until many hours later. Thus, the claim was deliberately untrue, or in layman’s language. ‘Dishonest’

I left this feedback and they (Seller) asked eBay to remove it and of course eBay duly obliged.

I asked eBay why they removed it and they responded that I could not use the word ‘Dishonest’.  I asked them to tell me how this was a breach of rules if true and the reply said;

“We cannot tell you why we removed it (though already had told me it was the word ‘Dishonest’) and the usual stuff about action taken behind the scenes and so on.

They then told me that this was the ‘Final Solution’….

Yes, the person (Raj) told me… that this was the Final Solution for me.

Anyone else think eBay has lost its way?  Anyone actually believe this was accidental?

I am closing my account after 21 years… That is my solution. I can always use a guest account to buy stuff so really do not need all the hassle and the lies and the horrendous language…

For those who miss the irony.  I use the word ‘Dishonest’ accurately and fairly and eBay use the term ‘Final Solution’…. Completely unnecessarily and out of context ….. and who is the bad boy?

 eBay are incapable of apologising or ever caring about buyers, they are too big and concerned about market share and look what that is doing to them.

If eBay delete this I will send it to their CEO and to other organisations they can’t ignore!

This is 100% truthful and accurate. Why would you remove it?  Yes eBay, the truth hurts but you don't seem to recognsie it till it bites!

[tressygirl]

A buyer can ask for a cancellation but the seller does not have to agree to this, it's not mandatory for them to cancel.

There are also some sellers use forwarding companied who receive orders,  the system immediately marks as dispatched there's no time to cancel the order.  

Words such as dishonest cannot be used , if allowed then  sellers could use those words against their competitors who had done nothing wrong and damage their reputation  and selling ability.

There are feedback rules to follow, if broken and the seller asks for the feedback to  be removed eBay oblige.

Does the seller have a Returns policy on their listing?  Then,  on receipt of the item you can post it back for a full refund,  but you'd need to pay for that tracked return postage.

@secularsid 

[plpmr]

impossible to deal with your question properly as you have private feedback.

[secularsid]

No idea where you studied consumer law but in fact, if the seller is a Trader and buyer is a consumer, by virtue of Reg 29 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.  A consumer buyer most certainly has the right to cancel after purchase and before dispatch, during dispatch, after dispatch and after delivery for 14 days (Reg 30).

And no eBay rule can override that as it is a Statutory provision.

Sellers don;t use 'forwarding companies'... They are DROP SHIPPERS so lose control as soon as the order is made.... But that is their issue, not the buyers.

'Dishonest' is a fair word too use if the seller is dishonest.   One can call a seller 'Honest' I assume. The whole point of Feedback is to warn others of bad people.  If someone lies about another, then yes, remove it.

As for paying for returns, Checkout Reg 35(5(b) of the CCR 2013..   

You exemplify why I am leaving eBay.

[secularsid]

Why would you need to see my Feedback for any reason, let alone to answer a question?

If you have an issue with my feedback being private just say so.    I already said I am winding down the account and after dropping my sales off I can go private.  I never have before ( 21 years) and I am sorry you see this is a big deal eggnog to mention.

[papso22]

I suggest you read Reg 30 as it is actually enacted.

[secularsid]

Reg 30m as you clearly do not know. is the provision of 14 days duration only,  It does not give any rights just the time for cancelling under  Reg 29 which gives the right to cacnel

Reg 31,  BTW actually elongates the cancellation period from 14 days (reg 30 ) to up to 365 days is Reg 16 is not complied with.. including paras a) to x) of schedule 2 and in Durable Medium. (Confirmation of Distance Contract ... or Information requirement as you;d know it in Ireland).  

What does "I suggest you read Reg 30 as it is actually enacted.  actually mean?  are you bluffing?

Go on ask me about CRA2015 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regs 2008...  

Free legal advice to all  🙂

[moonlight-rhapsody]

Have you received the goods yet?  If so and the seller is a business, you can just return them via ebay's Returns system.  OK it's more of a faff than if the seller had just cancelled straight away and you may have to pay the postage but at least you're not stuck with goods you don't want.  Or were they bought from a private seller, in which case it's a bit different.

[secularsid]

So how is Reg 30 "Actually Enacted"?

Here it is... Now please tell me how it is 'enacted?

Do your words actually mean something?

Certified copy from legislation.gov.uk Publishing

Normal cancellation period
30.—(1) The cancellation period ends as follows, unless regulation 31 applies.
(2) If the contract is—
(a) a service contract, or
(b) a contract for the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium,
the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the contract is entered
into.
(3) If the contract is a sales contract and none of paragraphs (4) to (6) applies, the cancellation
period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the goods come into the physical
possession of—
(a) the consumer, or
(b) a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.
(4) If the contract is a sales contract under which multiple goods are ordered by the consumer in
one order but some are delivered on different days, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14
days after the day on which the last of the goods come into the physical possession of—
(a) the consumer, or
(b) a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.
(5) If the contract is a sales contract under which goods consisting of multiple lots or pieces of
something are delivered on different days, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after
the day on which the last of the lots or pieces come into the physical possession of—
(a) the consumer, or
(b) a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.
(6) If the contract is a sales contract for regular delivery of goods during a defined period of
more than one day, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the
first of the goods come into the physical possession of—
(a) the consumer, or
(b) a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.

[secularsid]

Thanks for you reply.  Seems you have got some sense.  I am suing the seller in small claims.  It cost less than the charges he has to face...  But he needs a lesson.  🙂 

[danthescan]

My problem here is with people who have no idea how people sell or organise sales.

No one deserves a change of mind 2 minutes after buying and completing.

Its possible to ship at 2am in a Shell Garage these days.

If you want it then tell yourself you want to click buy, then go to the fridge for a beer and finish it.

If you still want the item then buy and if not don't buy. Save everyone a lot of grief that way and you get to have a beer. Ive had idiots click BIN and then say i dont want it.

I dont sell now its always grief and drama these days.

[sml192]

The feedback would have been removed anyway simply as a result of your cancellation request:

• When a buyer submits a cancellation request on eBay, we'll remove any negative or neutral feedback left for that transaction, regardless of whether the seller accepts or declines the cancellation request. Learn more in our Feedback policy

[secularsid]

That is interesting.  Given most neg feedback would likely involve a return this is a very good way for eBay to artificially show it has low levels of customer dissatisfaction...  🙂

[secularsid]

Yes I sort of agree that the CCR 2013 rights to cancel with distance sales seem a bit onerous on badly organized traders. But dem is da Law.  The Reg 35 regards the seller covering return costs also seem hard. Traders sounding very logical and self righteous maybe should be exempted but at the moment the UK legislature has not done that. Until they do it is the law.  Maybe instead of drinking beer you should lobby Parliament.

People make errors and sometimes need to cancel. Surely the faster they d that the better it is in everybody's interest... esp the trader's.

The ting is, why, if you (Trader) can cancel, would you not cancel?  It would save postage and return postage... Oh yes you are liable for that too... 🙂

I know eBay does not implement the law as it should but I cant fix that... what I can do is speak the facts. Consumer Regs trump eBay rules, every time... ask eBay, it is why they say on many pages "These rules do not affect your statutory rights"

There are reasons for cancellation being as they are and I wold explain this but I fear your opinions are already formed based on what you want, not what the law says.

[secularsid]

Not only have I read it but I have spent the last 10 years enforcing it an before that enforcing the DSR...

eBay were great, but they cover over 150 legal jurisdictions so can not hope to do it correctly in all, with one policy... Thus they do break ( or allow members to break) the local laws ALL THE TIME.

Trade Sellers, as defined by HMRC, are committing a crime when they pretend t be Private Sellers. This is a FACT.  Check out HMRC sites to see definitions of a Trade Seller ( Selling in the course of a business)...

Consumer buyers at distance have an unassailable legal right to cancel immediately after sale and for 14 days thereafter. AT NO COST ... but ONLY f the seller is selling in the course of a business... so we see why some lie about being private.... and eBay ignore this.

[secularsid]

I trust the following will be useful to people on this forum, in spite of them being experts. 

The first part is EBAY policy on who is and is not a Trade Seller.  The second part is HMRC 9 rules to determine  if you are a trade seller.  I spoke today to the office of the CEO and they agree with these comments and see no reason why they can not be punished on this forum. 

As for moderators, please check my accent to see the 40 minute call today FROM the office of the CEO.... Then delete the comments coz you just don;t get them.

Business seller policy

Business sellers are required to follow all government regulations, including registering as a business on eBay, and providing contact information and a return policy.

An eBay seller must register as a business if, for example, they sell items they have bought to resell, ( even if part of an old collection or bought years ago)  they make (or alter) items in order to sell them, or if they buy items for their business.

What is the policy?

Business sellers can't represent themselves as private individuals and are required to: 

• Register their business on eBay - opens in new window or tab
• Provide the following information in the business seller information section in their listings:
• Full contact details for the business 
• Any trade organisations they belong to
• Any authorisation scheme relevant to the online business
• Clear information about price, including any shipping or delivery charges and tax
• A VAT number, if the business's online activities are subject to VAT
• Make sure the listings are not misleading and provide clear and accurate information
• Create a returns policy including the time period in which buyers can return items and get a full refund
• Follow all government requirements and regulations including:
• Informing buyers they have 14 days to withdraw from the transaction for items that fall under the Consumer Contracts Regulations
• Accept the return of faulty items within 30 days with a full refund for items that fall under the Consumer Rights Act 2015

Additionally, business sellers can't:

• Charge restocking fees
• Keep original shipping fees for returns
• Charge buyers return shipping fees

HMRC and Trading Standard’s  ‘badges of trade’
1) Is your primary motive to earn a profit? If you intend to make money, rather than selling items for fun, your selling activity is considered to be a business.  (Who does not sell for profit?)

2) The number of transactions matter. If you repeat very similar transactions ( ie coins or heaters or toys) even in a short period of time, this might be considered a badge of trade.

3)What type and quantity of goods are you selling? To demonstrate that your selling activity is a hobby, you may need to prove the goods gave you “pride of possession”, for example, a picture for personal enjoyment.

4) If your online transactions are similar to an existing type of business, such as a clothing retailer or specialist collectables seller, this may be used as evidence that you are trading.

5) If you modify items before selling them, again this is a badge of trade. Ask yourself: do you repair, alter or improve items to make them more saleable and, therefore, achieve a greater profit?  This can include packaging, guarantees etc.

6) How did you carry out the sale? If you sold an item in the same way as a shop or auction house – where customers agree to buy something at a fixed price – you could be classed as a business. This is known as an “undisputed trade”.

7) If you borrowed money to buy an item, especially if this loan could be repaid only by selling the items again, this is evidence of trade.

😎The period of time between when you bought the item and sold it again will be looked at by HMRC. Any assets that are the subject of trade will normally, but not always, be sold quickly. This suggests that you only bought an item with the intention of selling it. By contrast, an asset that you bought with the intention of owning it, but then decided to sell after a period of time is much less likely to be suspect. The exception to this being collections, such as coins, stamps, art vintage cars etc… namely things which are bought, even in part, as investments.

9) How did you acquire the item? If you received something as a gift, or an inheritance, and the value has NOT increased since receipt, you’re far less likely to be seen to be running a business when you go on to sell.

[secularsid]

When everyone in the room agrees with you it is time to leave the room... Not change your opinion