fees

[nkenterprises0224]

Does anyone think this is the end of ebay , sales are non existent , people offering silly offers and parcelforce prices going up 76% . Trying to tell us something . People being too greedy and they will pay the price in the end  

[simplyessential_uk]

Im seeing it as a good thing finally a private seller will be pushed to a more level playing field - They may choose to undercut (which they do anyway) but they have a fee to pass onto the buyer which is reality a buyer is not going to pay when they compare prices - Not sure if it will appear at checkout or when searching but it will be interesting to see how it plays out 

[spence0175]

It will be interesting to see but I don’t think it will encourage more to become businesses . I think they will walk away or just stick with their selling limits

[johnwash1]

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@spence0175 wrote:

I just googled Simple delivery. Apparently you can opt out when creating your listing

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@spence0175 

You can now.  But read these forums or read what the CEO announced to investors several months ago.  SD for private sellers will become mandatory at some point in Q1.  End of March is not far away.

Sorry I don't have a link to hand, but look for posts by @valueaddedresource 

If the buyer picks RM you can, with some effort, go afterwards to RM's site and book a collection.  No such feature is available for Evri.  For some people that will work.  But for those with mobility issues or many miles from a drop-off point (yes, not everyone lives in the middle of a city), that will be a killer unless ebay come up with options.

I may have to switch my listings entirely to local collection only.  Which of course will kill even the few sales that I get.

Even though I'm not a business seller I'd be willing to switch my account type and have higher FVFs, but only if I could have an account basic enough that I'd pay no listing fees and no monthly sub.  I hope someone will alert me if I've overlooked the availability of that.

[valueaddedresource]

@spence0175  - you can read the full statement from the CEO with links to the transcript and replay of the Q3 earnings call where he said Simple Delivery will be mandatory here:

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Will-2pm-Wednesday-chat-go-ballistic-over-mandatory-S... 

[spence0175]

so basically EBay will be taking over every aspect of a sale.. will they be coming to my house to pack it as well…

[simplyessential_uk]

I dont think Ebay care as much about them as there is that grey area of genuine private sellers "clearing out" but HMRC will mop those up, its the private sellers putting 3K listings etc and abusing it that will push over to business accounts

[bravergrace]

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@spence0175 wrote:

It sure would. At least trial it for a few months. I would drop my prices to reflect fee reduction…

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They did trial no fees for used "apparel" for a couple of months before Christmas.  

Presumably it didn't work.

[bravergrace]

I'm not convinced that eBay will be able to add buyer-facing fees for "Buyer Protection" for UK business sellers.

It could be iffy ground for them, because it's breaking a couple of principles of consumer protection:

- It's transferring the risk of postal loss or damage to the buyer, and making them pay a compulsory fee for what should be their basic consumer rights.  Which is more-or-less what eBay were banned from doing years ago, when they encouraged buyers to pay extra for "postal insurance".

- It's adding compulsory fees at checkout, with no opt-out.  Either those fees are for buyers' basic consumer rights (the right to receive the goods undamaged), in which case it's probably illegal to charge for them, or they are for extra rights (like the right to access a 24-hour helpline), in which case they should probably be optional.

Having said that, I actually quite like the idea of eBay taking responsibility for postal loss or damage.  Especially when eBay define "postal loss" as anything arriving 3 days later than a fictitious dynamic delivery estimate (2nd class post, MUST arrive the day after posting etc).  I don't see why I should be held responsible for not meeting a delivery target that I didn't set, my courier didn't set, and which ignores my non-working days.

But I'm not convinced that buyers should (or would want to) pay this extra charge as compensation for parcels not arriving by daft ETAs.

[eyewear247]

@moonspender 

Your £15 example is flawed because a private business seller with zero fees could undercut the genuine business seller by around 15% and sell that £15 item for £12.75 with eBay increasing the listed price to £14.01

A business seller with never be able to be as competitive as a private business seller without taking a sizable hit on their margin, if indeed there is enough margin available to reduce to be able to compete.

The gap gets bigger the more expensive the item is

A £150 priced item could be sold by a private business seller for just £112.50 with eBay listing it at £117.75, even with the buyer premium a staggering £32.25 less !

How is a genuine business seller expected to be able to compete ? 

[moonspender]

Yes its not fair, as i said

In all likelyhood private sellers will have to reduce there price to factor in the new fees, however, the private sellers fees are cheaper so they will still be able to undercut business sellers based on equal terms ie cost to purchase

So totally agree business sellers cannot complete

[spence0175]

The simple reality is…we can’t…

[simplyessential_uk]

- It's transferring the risk of postal loss or damage to the buyer, and making them pay a compulsory fee for what should be their basic consumer rights   - But the consumer is buying from a "private" seller so they dont have any consumer rights or have to abide to DSR - however Ebay are adding a "fee" to the buyer to give them that protection, which laughably most buyers would think (or expect) they already have on the platform but Ebay have clearly realised that they are losing money if people are doing chargebacks etc.
As business sellers have protection then I think this is a good thing as buyers can now "choose" who they want to buy from and the 4% + 75p is quite a hefty increase for those private sellers who are lising thousands for free and undercutting honest sellers

- It's adding compulsory fees at checkout, with no opt-out. - I suppose there is an argument to say that the buyer can opt out and chose another seller, therefore pushing these private sellers to convert to business.  Also its like buying tickets online and being charged admin with no option to opt out - where else are you going to buy the ticket?

[simplyessential_uk]

Lets take the £15 example and if 2 sellers (1 private and 1 business) both buy this item for £10 and want to sell for £15 - Both parties will have paid the same cost price (if from the same wholesalers) 

The business seller sells their item at £15 making £5 profit (Minus FVF) Also factor in a basic shop at £32.60 across 250 listing is 13p listing fee

Private seller has 0 listing fee but a 4% + 75p charge ( which is more than the 13p listing fee) so If they sell at £15 he would have to sell at £13.68 + 4% +75p to make £15 - hes only getting £13.68 leaving him with £3.68 profit (minus FVF) 

Therefore the business seller is £1.32 better off  - Am I missing something?

[insidethe93]

"will they be coming to my house to pack it as well"  If they did, for no justifiable reason, they'd bring and hold up extra hoops for you to jump through.

[johnwash1]

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@simplyessential_uk wrote:

Lets take the £15 example and if 2 sellers (1 private and 1 business) both buy this item for £10 and want to sell for £15 - Both parties will have paid the same cost price (if from the same wholesalers) 

The business seller sells their item at £15 making £5 profit (Minus FVF) Also factor in a basic shop at £32.60 across 250 listing is 13p listing fee

Private seller has 0 listing fee but a 4% + 75p charge ( which is more than the 13p listing fee) so If they sell at £15 he would have to sell at £13.68 + 4% +75p to make £15 - hes only getting £13.68 leaving him with £3.68 profit (minus FVF) 

Therefore the business seller is £1.32 better off  - Am I missing something?

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I don't know which would be better off, but in your example have you forgotten whatever FVF the business seller has to pay?  I don't know how much that is.

Though the reality probably is that neither of you make the sale because worldofbooks/musicmagpie/pileemhighandgivelousyservice offer the same book for less than what it costs you even to post it.

[insidethe93]

Loads of items are one-offs. There is no choice of seller.

It happens to me (most recently in the last few days) even in the non-collectibles category that I mainly buy in.

[simplyessential_uk]

On the basis that they both sold an item for £15 they BOTH have the same FVF to pay but the private seller has more fees 

[simplyessential_uk]

Appreciate that but if we are complaining about mass private sellers avoiding the fees and undercutting honest business sellers these fees will put a stop to that.  The Private seller will still end up paying more in fees than if they convert to a business

[moonspender]

The private seller does not pay FVF though

[4_bathrooms]

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@bravergrace wrote:

I'm not convinced that eBay will be able to add buyer-facing fees for "Buyer Protection" for UK business sellers.

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You're spot on; they can't. Schedule 1 Paragraph 10 of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations states "Presenting rights given to consumers in law as a distinctive feature of the trader's offer" is an offence. Where business sellers are concerned eBay would be forcing buyers to pay a fee for protection they already had enshrined in law due to the nature of the transaction.

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@bravergrace wrote:

Having said that, I actually quite like the idea of eBay taking responsibility for postal loss or damage.  Especially when eBay define "postal loss" as anything arriving 3 days later than a fictitious dynamic delivery estimate (2nd class post, MUST arrive the day after posting etc).  I don't see why I should be held responsible for not meeting a delivery target that I didn't set, my courier didn't set, and which ignores my non-working days.

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I agree; an improved (and optional) "Simple Delivery" with collection from the courier firms added would probably be more beneficial to some business sellers. Shipping would no longer be a cost for them to consider including costs arising from transit loss/damage, genuinely late deliveries, INAD claims where the buyer dropped the item during the MBG window etc.

It would also remove the threat of INR dings in service metrics and orange blobs for "late" delivery in seller performance (which can attract a "6% + VAT" fine if the seller's level becomes "below standard" as a result). However, eBay aren't going offer this to business sellers as they can't force business sellers' buyers into paying a fee to cover the cost of it.