Democracy?

[cee-dee]

Just what is this Democracy?

It's supposed to be "The Rule of the People" isn't it?

These days some seem to think it's the will of the people as defined by a majority vote...... that is, just so long as it goes your way? If the democratic vote doesn't go your way, then the empty kettles kick off and demand another vote until it does go your way? That's Democracy?

Here we have a couple of different illustrations of the will of the majority being questioned:-

First we have the referendum, the majority vote was to leave the EU so now the "remainers" want another vote because the first didn't go their way.

Secondly we have the strange situation where Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party by a members vote but now 170 odd members of his team have lost confidence in his leadership and there's been mass resignation amongst the shadow cabinet but agitating members are saying he was elected as leader by the democratic vote of members so he should remain as leader.

Who's he going to lead if a large slice of the parliamentary Labour party have no confidence in him and won't work "under" him?

Simplifying things a little, it's a bit like the members of the Manchester United board and members of the team saying they've no confidence in the manager and won't work with him but the fan club say he's the man for the job and say he should remain?

Soooooo, where does the above leave "Democracy"?

[lightblueberet]

Democracy ? Rule of the majority, and the minority has to abide...in theory, anyway !

[l111da]

Judging by the events of the last 20 years there is no such thing as democracy - and the events of the last few days are beginning to prove that that indeed is the case!

MP's of all parties are merely waiting to catch the next gravy train! Oh and the press are just there to stir, sensationalise and put their spin on the whole thing!

[dark_castle1]

Another example of Democracy not at work is nasty Nicola Sturgeon and her SNP cronies !

2014 after the vote by the majority of us Scots to remain in the UK and her standing in front of the cameras and saying "there will NOT be another Independence refererendum in this generation".

2016, when the vote by the people of the UK does not go the way she and her snp cronies want they start shouting about another Independence referendum.

We the majority of Scots who voted for remaining within the UK do not want another referendum Nasty Nichola and SNP so stop trying for another and STOP lieing to the electorate.

Abide by the DEMOCRATIC vote of the people of the UK and stay within the UK and leave the EU if that is the eventual outcome.

[artful_dodgings]

Democracy = Tears and Tantrums.

Prime example is outlined above by DC, regarding Fishface Sturgeon. She doesn't like, nor does she want to be part of the UK, hence her present foot-stomping charade. Her mission is to be completely independent, an attempt which failed. If it wasn't for the EU that is prompting her to throw her toys out of her pram, it would have been something else.

An autocratic, and power-hungry harridan, who thinks she can ride roughshod over the majority.

[evoman3957]

Well the alternative is there for all to see, in countries where the democratic nations of the west; have tried to impose their " Democracy "and failed.  These countries were previously either " Tribal " or " a Dictatorship " where people were kept in line, to stop them fragmenting along tribal lines.  Matters were resolved by tribal elders and if resolution was not possible, it was resolved by inter tribal War / Conflict.  So all I can say to those that PLAY at being democratic, but won't accept democracy in it's totality, is............." Keep it up and you'll end up with the society you deserve and that will be the above alternative, we'll see how wonderful your futures will be then "..........fortunately I won't be around to hear the Whinging, Whining and bellyaching.

[upthecreekyetagain]

We get the democracy we deserve - the majority of people vote along party lines and are then surprised when the person they elected follows policies dictated by the party rather than those that best serve the electorate.

[al**bear]

Democracy -

Do you believe that such an important decision such as leaving the EU should be carried on the Vote of 

only 37.4% of the total electorate ?  

Under Tory Union Ballot laws that would not be enough to call a strike on

[astrologica]

51% of those who voted, voted LEAVE...so that is a MAJORITY.......72% of the eligible population thought it was important enough an issue to turn out to vote. If the other 28% didn't think it important enough, or couldn't be bothered to get out of bed to go and make their mark, then they got the result they deserved.

it is a democratic vote, and we had a democratic result. There is no fault in the system. If those that wanted to remain want someone to blame, then maybe they should point the finger at those who didn't turn out to vote....maybe if they had there would have been a larger majority either way. 

It's no  good whinging about the result, as those protesters in London yesterday did....the vote has been cast, and we are out, and the sooner the better.

Incidentally .... When we had a referendum here in Wales on whether to have a Welsh Assembly, the Yes vote majority was only about 25% of the total population, but it went ahead....democracy, you see. I voted No at the time, because I could see the way things were going then. EU forward plan.....devolve, divide...then rule. Well....we Welsh have seen right through it, and voted by a huge majority to LEAVE.

[astrologica]

And Al.......you have to ask yourself....if the ballot had been the same number of votes each side, but the majority for Remain...would you be protesting so strongly now? 

[dark_castle1]

Al, in 2014 did Scotland not vote to remain within the UK ?

Yes we did and as such there is no seperate countries in the vote to remain or leave the EU ! the UK voted by a majority to LEAVE the EU and it makes no difference what different regions within the UK voted.

Democracy = accepting the majority vote and that was LEAVE.

[dark_castle1]

In my opinion if SNP do not want to be part of the UK they should not stand for a general election to be voted into Westminster and only seek election into the Scottish parliament.

Why stand to be voted into a government of a country you do not want to be part of !

This is a United Kingdom and long may it remain so.

[dark_castle1]

In a pictorial dictionary the definitive picture for MEGALOMANIAC should be of Nasty Nicola Sturgeon.

[cee-dee]

[evoman3957]

Democracy is a form of governance and parties are a source of support for a political aim, they are NOT a RELIGION and some need to wake up to that fact.........support of the former is healthy.........ignorant fanaticism, in belief of the latter, is definitely not.

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@dark_castle1 wrote:

In my opinion if SNP do not want to be part of the UK they should not stand for a general election to be voted into Westminster and only seek election into the Scottish parliament.

Why stand to be voted into a government of a country you do not want to be part of !

This is a United Kingdom and long may it remain so.

---

Probably for the same reason that UKIP put forward candidates in elections to the European Parliament

[upthecreekyetagain]

The referendum was a democratic exercise and those we have elected to govern us must be bound by the result and take us out of the EU.

The protests in London, and elsewhere, are also a demonstration of people exercising their democratic right to protest.  These protests should not slow down the exit from Europe but those protestors have every right to express their view.

Referendum decisions are not set in stone, people change their minds over time - whether that time is 1 year, 10 years or 43 years depends on many factors - changes in the EU was one of the reasons given for the latest one to overturn the decision of that held in 1973 - no doubt the EU will change over the next 43 years - economic growth and other factors, (such as immigration), over the next 5 or 10 years may well improve so much that calls for a return to membership of the EU will dwindle, on the other hand if they don't there may well be demands for a new referendum.

Neither scenario is undemocratic - the only thing that would be undemocratic is if those that govern us don't follow the will of the people as expressed in the latest referendum.

[l111da]

correct!

...but its time we bagan to laugh again

http://wbaunofficial.org.uk/archive/index.php?thread-1971.html

[bankhaunter]

[al**bear]

The Scottish Referendum ended in a Vote for No change, if the figures had been the other way round, then that would have been a Vote for Major change, with a minority of the Electorate, which would be wrong as well.

It is Camerons fault, for not installing a minimum amount of the population having to turn out to vote for change say 50.1% meaning You would need 20.5 million needed to turn out to Vote leave.

That is what has happened in UK referendums before

That is what has been imposed on the Trade Unions on Industrial action ballots by Cameron

------------------------

I really believe We will NOT leave the EU, far too many very powerful people have a vested interest in Our being in the EU, they will find a way for another Vote to be held.

The 'City of London', The London Stock Exchange, The MultiNationals, large UK Companies, Large UK Landowners/farmers, all the Foreign Companies based in the UK, but especially the USA Government and the Money men on Wall Street. The overwhelming majority of our MPs (even on the Tory benches) and loads of Leave Voters who now believe they were Lied to (on the £360 million & curbing EU Immigration)