Is Evri killing Ebay?

[adamfrag]

There are plenty threads with people complaining about Evri, many have replys from happy customers saying  " I havn't had a problem with Evri" but if you did then you would find out just what a joke they are.

The measure of a company is how they deal with problems.

Try contacting customer services! They will email you quick smart.... but its just an automated reply, generic, sent to everyone that starts a chat on line .

Phone them...its no better.

They left my parcel outside in the street,(not the first time) its been stolen (also not the first time).

They have a tracking photo that proves non delivery, its in the street otside my closed door.

Yet ebay say the tracking shows delivered.

The sale of goods act 2015 means nothing to ebay.

For me, Evri is killing Ebay

[kempseykate]

Ebay can only go by tracking. 

If this isn't the first time parcels have been stolen outside your door, why not use Click and Collect or send to a relative/friend who is usually in all day, or lives somewhere where the parcel could be hidden a bit more.

Other couriers also leave on doorsteps - here DPD and Amazon are the worst offenders - so it's not just Evri.

[adamfrag]

Shouldn't ebay take into account that the tracking photo shows the parcel outside of my closed door?

A door that opens onto a public path.

The sale of goods act 2015 states that the item is the sellers responsiblity unti it is handed to me....not left in the street.

Ebay are complicit. Each time this has happened I have provided a screen shot of the Evri tracking, showing the parcel outside my closed door. Also a photo of the street for context. Ebay has the tracking number so could go find the non deliery photo for them selves.

If Ebay did the right thing and sided with the law, as they should, this would end. Sellers would be more careful who they use for delivery if they lost insted of the buyer.

The seller has nothing to loose, as they wone the case that I opened then even my negative feedback is removed!

I have also had Evri return my click and collect parcel to the sender. Don't know if it made it to the collection shop, they didn't notifiy me if it did. I couldn't contact them, they seller couldn't either. His wife delivered by hand in the end...thats what you call service!

My local Evri divers leave the parcel outside, often without knocking the door even when I am home.

I never get to the door and find the driver, parcel in hand.

I don't think it fair to envolve a friend or family member.

No,I'm sure its not just Evri, they are the ones that I personally have had problems with.

[myriad*seller]

Apparently chargebacks will get you a refund if the photo shows a closed door and left outside

Contact your card issuer for a refund 

[adamfrag]

Thanks for the advice.

Fingers crossed, I have contacted PayPal this time.

The problem being though, after 20 years of using ebay I think is become more trouble than its worth.

[papso22]

---

@myriad*seller wrote:

Apparently chargebacks will get you a refund if the photo shows a closed door and left outside

Contact your card issuer for a refund 

---

Surely that's open to abuse?  

[adamfrag]

Abuse....how so?

We are talking about the couriers delivery photo.

[adamfrag]

On the subject of where the parcel could be hidden a bit more, the photo shows my recycling shed, next to my side entrance, that the driver walks past every time they leave a parcel at my house. 

 Royal mail leave my parcels in the shed if I'm not home. Thats too much effort for the Evri driver.

[thesmokingrunner]

That was the first thing that crossed my mind too, papso22...

Couriers are in such a hurry these days they'll sometimes photograph the parcel in front of a closed door before the door is even opened (it's happened to me). So in that situation the buyer could then potentially open a chargeback and get a refund from the funding source?

That is really not good.

[adamfrag]

Again, if there was accountablity through Ebay then the courier would wait until you open the door to take the photo.

Assuming they intend to wait for you to open the door, why would taking the photo after it was open take any extra time?

If a few seconds is, as you suggest so crucial, putting the parcel down and taking a photo is a waste of time if indeed they intend to pick said parcel up and take it with them if you don't open the door.

[papso22]

It's open to abuse because there is no way to prove the buyer doesn't have the parcel.  A photo of the parcel in front of a closed door is not that proof.

[adamfrag]

It is however proof that the delivery didn't comply  with the sale of goods act 2015.

Thus if the seller was found liable, as they should, accoring to the law, this practice of leaving parcels on doorsteps would cease.

[thesmokingrunner]

I suspect you're actually referring to the Consumer Rights Act 2015, adamfrag, Section 28(2) of which reads "Unless the trader and the consumer have agreed otherwise, the contract is to be treated as including a term that the trader must deliver the goods to the consumer".

And therein lies the problem. I suspect - I've not checked - that almost if not every delivery company's Ts&Cs contain a clause stating that leaving the item in a 'safe space' constitutes delivery. Ok, now define 'safe space': what's safe to you is not necessarily safe to someone else. The delivery driver is paid, probably piece rate, to deliver in excess of a hundred packages a day - they just don't have time to figure out the safest location to leave a delivery then fill in a card and post it through the letterbox, let alone wait for someone who may not even be home to open a door. So they photograph the delivery on the doorstep, knock and go. As far as they're concerned the item has been delivered. Job done. And by buying from a seller who ships using that delivery company you, the buyer, has agreed to that.

eBay won't get involved ("we're only a platform") because the contract is between the buyer and the seller. The seller chooses the method of postage and the buyer, by the act of purchasing, agrees to both the seller's method of postage and the Ts&Cs of the delivery company used in fulfilling the contract. If a buyer doesn't read and understand the Ts&Cs then they are in no position to call foul if something then goes wrong.

The delivery company and the seller have photographic proof that the item was left at your address. According to the Ts&Cs  - to which you tacitly agreed when purchasing the item - that's all they need. I'm sorry for your loss and all that, but anytime anyone makes an online purchase they take an identical calculated risk that the transaction goes smoothly. It's only when it doesn't, as happened to you, that people find out that they're not covered.

The bottom line is if you want to be certain that you're going to actually receive what you buy either use a Signed-For Tracking service or - here's a radical thought - go to a real shop. The thing is, though, that people want stuff, they want it cheap and they want it fast; they're not willing to pay extra to guarantee delivery so they take a risk. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Oh, and to answer your original question: 'Is Evri killing eBay?' : No. eBay doesn't need any help. It's managing to do that perfectly well all on its own.

[adamfrag]

Sorry but I don't see how by placing an order that I automatically agree for the seller to arranging delivery that allows the item to be left in a "safe place" . 
 At the time of placing the order I wasn't even aware of which courier was going to be used.

That information wasn't in the listing, only an estimated delivery date. 
If the seller chooses to use a courier whose terms allow for leaving my item in the street then that  should be their problem. 
If, for example, they had used Royal Mail, then I would have the item which I paid for. 

[kempseykate]

If the seller doesn't state which courier, and you have a problem with items left being nicked, why not just ask the seller which courier they use, before buying, then you can make the decision whether to buy from them, or look elsewhere?

As a seller I use a delivery service that best suits me ... I will try an accommodate a buyer if they ask if I can send with a different courier.  I'm not a mind reader, so have no idea if they are going to be out, and items left on the doorstep are prone to being stolen.

As a buyer,  if it's parcel size, then I check the tracking to see when it's going to be delivered, and if I'm going to out, make other arrangements online. Or use C&C. Buyers have to take some responsibility, if they know there are problems with deliveries to their address.

[thesmokingrunner]

The bottom line is that by placing an order you automatically agreed to the seller 's terms of delivery. If the seller did not specify a specific delivery method or company then you in effect agreed that the seller could use whatever method or company they deemed appropriate. That was what you did in your particular case: you bought the item from the seller, the seller sent it and it was recorded as delivered to your address under the terms of the contract.

You could have checked with the seller prior to purchase which delivery they were going to use, though whether that information may or may not have led to a decision not to purchase is a moot point because you did not ask; that was the risk you took.

eBay cover themselves both with the "we're only a platform, we don't see the item" mantra and within their (extensive) User Agreement and Ts&Cs. Likewise courier companies cover themselves with their equally extensive Ts&Cs. You signed up to both, either specifically or by consequential agreement when you made the purchase.

And I regret to say that your supposition that the situation would not have occurred had Royal Mail been the carrier is incorrect. I arrived home after 5 days away last October to find a RM delivery on my doorstep. I don't know how long it had been there but fortunately our doorstep cannot be seen by anyone. If that had been a delivery to you the same thing as happened to your Evri delivery could have occurred.

[technthread]

The idea that Royal Mail don't do the same is false. I have checked my tracking on a few sales this morning. One of them was Royal Mail tracked 48 and the picture was of the parcel left at the buyers closed front door. The buyer left me positive feedback within 10 minutes of the delivery so clearly will have picked that parcel up within a few minutes of the postie knocking on the door. They don't always have the time to wait for people to stroll to the door at their leisure, whichever courier you choose this isn't going to change. 

[adamfrag]

I have had one parcel stolen previously.
The item was 28 mm by 57 mm. It would have fit trough the letterbox. I guess the driver figured he couldn't take a photo of it if it was posted. 
 But let's face it, why should he or the seller care if I received it or not, there is no accountability. 

[adamfrag]

I base my royal mai comment on the fact that my postman always leaves parcels in my shed if I'm not home.  Always. 
 I'm sorry but all this talk of automatically agreeing to terms is bollxx.

I wouldn't knowingly order from anyone who thinks like that . 

[thesmokingrunner]

Ok. I think we'll have to agree to disagree, though you obviously did order something from someone who thought like that, otherwise you wouldn't have ended up in this situation.

If, as you so eruditely expressed, talk of automatically agreeing to terms is bollxx then I can only suggest you consider testing your belief by way of the legal system, though excuse me if I don't hang around to learn the result because I already know the outcome.

By the way your statement that your postman always leaves parcels in your shed if you're not home should perhaps read your current postman always leaves parcels in your shed if you're not home. Don't assume that just because one postman does it the next postman is going to carry on doing it...