The national Living Wage.

[fallen-archie]

As today sees the start of the National Minimum wage for over 25s I was interested to hear a debate this morning in which many bosses and small businesses said that the cost could see many more people on the dole and price increases. There are definately some areas particularly small businesses, some retail and the care sector which may struggle and yet one very interesting statistic showed that if every person earning £100,000 per year reduced their pay by £1.30 per day that would cover the entire increase. Why is it that the gap between the lowest and highest paid in the UK is so wide, much wider than many European countries and it's not just wages, pensions too seem to be at risk with the masses yet the higher paid have more lucrative schemes. My question is are Bosses bigging themselves and their value up unreasonably in order to gain substantial salaries and benefits.

[cee-dee]

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach.

[al**bear]

The REAL Living wage is way above Osbornes 'kiddy on' Living Wage

Why should the Government subsidise Businesses paying poverty wages (through in-Work benefits)

If you, as a business can't pay the real LIving wage -

Your Business model is wrong

[fallen-archie]

I don't know who coined that phrase however it is very damaging to the teaching profession. Anyone becoming a teacher these day's has to be extremely hard nosed to survive. Yes there are good and bad teachers but the same goes for other disciplines, bad doctors are often exposed along with Directors, managers, local authority employees etc etc. Money alone should not allow a parent to propel their offspring to positions beyond there ability yet it does day after day and they are the same people who are complaining about the national living wage.

[al**bear]

One Hedge Fund manager in London has been paid £32million in the last 2 years,even in this downturn

Thats about 5 x times what even some of His Bosses earned

[cee-dee]

It's generally atributed to George Bernard Shaw.

It sometimes has an additional bit "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Those that can't teach, teach teachers."

[jd.linklater]

---

@al**bear wrote:

The REAL Living wage is way above Osbornes 'kiddy on' Living Wage

Why should the Government subsidise Businesses paying poverty wages (through in-Work benefits)

If you, as a business can't pay the real LIving wage -

Your Business model is wrong

---

Couldn't agree more Al.

£7.20 is NOT a living wage, if businesses can only pay their staff what amounts to little more than slave wages then they are in the wrong business. Low wages leads to higher benefits, more crime, more black market trading, more poverty. A thriving economy depends on people spending money, not just on everyday goods that they need to survive but long term commitments. Who can raise a deposit for a house and secure a mortgage or invest in a new car when they are working for a pittance often on zero hours contracts? The inequality in this country is a scandal.

[cee-dee]

All this pontificating about low wages (for some) doesn't stop people from patronising those businesses and then complaining about the cost of what they're providing/selling?

[fallen-archie]

People are free to shop where they wish or where they can afford, This is not about pontificating over low wages it is about what constitutes a living wage, it is also about the huge disparities that exist between the low paid and those in senior positions for whom wage increases seem always to be way over the level of inflation. One rule for some and one rule for others. I believe in a fair days pay for a fair days work regardless of position, not I'm ok and stuff everyone else.

[0125arwen]

It will cost jobs no doubt about that, nothing has been done in regard to helping small business, which employs most workers.

[cee-dee]

People see a relatively wealthy man and want what he's got but they don't want to do what he had to do to get what he has today.

Forget about rich people who've inherited vast wealth, you'll never get that unless you happen on a good scheme to take/make something of low cost and sell it for a high price. If you can't do that, you'll never be Bill Gates or Steve Jobs.

A lesson about ordinary working men. I once worked in a place where all the blokes had bought/were buying their own houses. Two blokes had worked there most of their working lives. Both had paid for their houses, both had large sums in the bank and building society. They'd inherited nothing up to that point. Their strategy was to get on with their job, save what they could but go short of nothing. No, they were not mean old skinflints, they were....."careful". OK, so we were not low paid, but we'd had to learn to do the job. Others who'd not graduated to that skill level were sweeping the floor or doing a low-skilled job in the factory, that's why they got a lot less than we did!

Far too many people don't want to start at the bottom, oh no, they see people at the top and want the same, now.

[fallen-archie]

It simply Isn't as clear cut as you suggest. Of course there are people as you describe but you cannot tar everyone with the same brush. I witnessed the demise of so many jobs as Unions made and got excessive pay rises, I have seen plenty of wasters too, not bothered about working hard but all wanting the latest mobile phone or designer item. Properly incentivised jobs are the best way to satisfy the majority providing they have a basic work ethic. The trouble with your success scenario is that being careful or tight depending how you see it, often means that the individuals never really reap the rewards of their efforts it goes instead to the offspring. People work to live not live to work and some enjoyment/relaxation is good considering you only live once. Go back a few years and watching a football match was common for the 'working class' Now a season ticket is so expensive as players are paid ridiculous sums, that forces people to watch on TV and guess what that costs a fortune too. How would the majority cope if they had to pay for their own medical services? how many could actually afford the insurance costs even with a lower tax rate. The balance is all wrong.

[cee-dee]

Hey, come on, those two chaps of whom I spoke both had new cars, new caravans and went abroad on holidays. I suppose they were "tight" in that they didn't fritter money away drinking, smoking and gambling but they were steady blokes who enjoyed what they enjoyed.

Each to our own, yes, but later on in life you see those who've frittered their money away (reaping the rewards?) being envious, even quite nasty about those who've planned their spending better.

Those lower paid jobs....... "someone's got to do it"? Yeah, OK, but if you're not capable of doing anything different, I suppose you'll be stuck with a job like that.

I know some would say that there are those who are as thick as two short planks are only capable of some menial job or other but there are some people classed as "thick as two short planks" who've got their finger out, worked hard at what they could do (failing that they had an idea) and hey presto...... over time, they've got a bob or two too. They're still as thick as two short planks but they've got a few bob to go along with those planks!

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@al**bear wrote:

The REAL Living wage is way above Osbornes 'kiddy on' Living Wage

Why should the Government subsidise Businesses paying poverty wages (through in-Work benefits)

If you, as a business can't pay the real LIving wage -

Your Business model is wrong

---

You can't have it both ways - calling for subsidies to help the steel industry and at the same time criticising other businesses that are being indirectly subsidised.

[evoman3957]

I can see a few more grandparents being drummed into service, because Child care costs are bound to go up and for some they're prohibitive enough already.  Those that look after the children, don't exactly get paid a bundle now and the costs are still pretty high for many; so when their pay goes up, either the care center closes or the cost to the parents goes up.

[fallen-archie]

Yep it's a big ask when you have children and everyone needs to work, again it's more money into the economy. When you think previous generations struggled to bring up a hatful of kids on one wage. Now the young children are lucky to see their parents during the week, but hey that is progress.

[joe_bloggs*]

I see some companies are already working around it!

-

Yet over-25s in thousands of companies will see no increases and many will see their pay cut because tight-fisted employers have found ways to get around the new regulations. In B&Q, for example, new contracts are being introduced which will get rid of a long-standing bonus worth 6% of salary, reduce hourly rates for working on Sundays and bank holidays and cut back on territorial allowances for some workers in the most expensive parts of the country.

The effect of this is that many workers will end up losing hundreds and in some cases thousands of pounds a year, rather than getting the increase in remuneration that the new national living wage offers. And if workers don’t sign up to these new terms, their contracts will be terminated and they will lose any annual bonus they have accrued to date.

B&Q was already a low-paying employer but using the new minimum rates for over 25s as an excuse to cut remuneration for their workers is an outrage.
Richard Lynch
GMB union representative

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/01/poorer-people-are-the-real-losers-with-the-national-l...

[fallen-archie]

Many companies have done similar things in order to minimise the impact. It could be described as good practice and no doubt the financial guru responsible will be well rewarded. For 40 years I have seen focus on staff cost, efficiency , yet throughout that time I have never seen anyone say How do we reward staff effectively and maximise output.

[evoman3957]

The only thing that makes money different from any other resource like; Gold, Silver, Water, Sun, etc. etc. is that you can go on printing it until the Cows come home.  The only thing that makes it finite, is the paper you print it on.........but then when that runs out, you can always print it on something else.  What a odd system we've created, you can buy a house with totally worthless pieces of paper; as long as the figures on the notes add up to the cost of the house. The so called clever ones, buy pieces of paper that say they own Gold or Silver.........buckets of it.  It seems they are totally without concern, that if all the existing gold and silver certificates, in the World, were cashed in tomorrow; there wouldn't be near enough gold and silver in existence to cover them. Money moguls, play around with £ billions on the stock market every day; moving your unseen pension pot ,into their ever deeper pockets.........But one thing remains as sure as life itself..........what goes into one mans pocket, comes out of another mans pocket.

[bankhaunter]

The UK is slowly getting like the US where 80% of the population share only 15% of the wealth.